A Journey Through Philippi: Philippians 4 and Patronage

Join us for the final chapter of our journey through Philippians! 📖 In Chapter 4, St. Paul delves into a sensitive topic: money. 🤑 His seemingly dismissive remarks about gifts - thanks for your gifts, but I didn't really need them - can puzzle modern readers. But when viewed through the lens of ancient customs like Xenia and patronage, a deeper understanding emerges. 💡 Let's unravel the cultural context and conclude our study of this profound New Testament book together. 🌟 
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Chapters

• 0:00 A Feast To Remember
• 7:05 A Journey Through Philippi Book Plug
• 12:23 The Money Conversation
• 22:20 Learning to be Content
• 35:00 Philippians 4:13
• 41:31 Financial Arrangements in the Ancient World
• 1:00:00 Giving as Sacrifice

Transcript

Philippians 4

David: [00:00:00] I'd say here comes the crash landing as we finish. 

J.R.: It is. It's like the what dodo bird? Yeah. He can fly, but he can't land. 

David: Hey man, what's going on? 

J.R.: Oh, nothing much. We keep asking our listeners for questions. And I didn't get any questions this week, but I did get somebody that emailed me and said dude, you know, that MySpace is actually a website.

David: Really? Okay, so it is an actual website. 

J.R.: Right. And I don't know what, I mean, I did go to my browser. I didn't fake this. I mean, and it was just, I apparently, I don't know if it was an internet connection thing or what. I did get an empty page, but I did go back after I heard that. And you were right, it's like a musician's - it's sort of like Facebook. But I think you have to be some kind of authentic musician to start your own page. Yeah, it's just, I mean, I don't know how much traffic it gets, but there is an actual website, so. <Okay.> Yeah. [00:01:00] Correction. 

David: Yeah. Editorial correction. <Yeah.> I think that's the first, well, no, that can't be the first one we've actually issued on this podcast. But, no, that's what I was thinking, that it's still a thing. Yeah, I don't know how much traffic it gets. But that's what I was thinking because, well my wife checked it out. She's a, I want to say a former musician, but she's a musician.

J.R.: Ahh no, she's you never, 

David: You're never a former musician, are you?

J.R.: Yeah, you're just always a musician, right? 

David: Right, so I think I was exposed to that through her, thinking, oh MySpace is still a thing, huh? And it's, yeah, there's something like, you have to be, maybe invited by other musicians. It's not just open to anyone. But, alright, so that's cool. 

J.R.: So, yeah, you were correct. Yeah, I jumped in too quickly. <Okay.> I assumed that there was - well, I will say it surprised me when I went to it and that there was nothing. You know, because mine came back whatever, an error or something like that. And I was like, oh, wow, it's completely shut down, which did surprise me. <Yeah.> But that's not the case. <Okay, alright.> There you go.[00:02:00] Alright, so, for clarity, <Yeah, so.> that answers that. 

David: Alright, so there we go. We've cleared up the whole MySpace debate. <Yeah, yeah.> It's still a thing, surprisingly.

J.R.: Yeah, it is. Yeah, no kidding. That's right. 

David: Well, we've been starting out each one of these episodes with a story from Philippi. We didn't really intend that. We just, I guess it's got stories. Yeah, we got stories. So, so one of my favorite stories from our time in Philippi was we've alluded to this on some other episodes, but I don't think we've really gotten in depth to it. But we talk about what a great hotel that we stayed at and the host was fantastic. Well, so I was thinking again about that meal we had with him. And we had gone there off season. It was a pretty big hotel. But I think us and I saw one other guy actually. 

J.R.: I know, I think it was completely empty. Yeah, I did see one other guy. 

David: In the restaurant area. One of the things that the host had indicated is that the restaurant was actually a very highly regarded [00:03:00] restaurant in that little area there.

J.R.: Yeah, I told him I was upset that it wasn't open. I would have loved to have, 

David: yeah, yeah, we'd heard good things about it. And he said, yeah, and we, I don't think I realized that time, but he was actually the chef also. <Right.> And clearly enjoyed cooking because we talked about how we were disappointed and we got to know him over breakfast and he was a great host. But yeah, then he all of a sudden offers to cook us dinner. He clearly really wanted to cook us dinner, right? 

J.R.: Yeah, yeah, it was killing him. Yeah. Yeah, he said, come back tonight and you know, I'll have dinner ready. And no menu or anything like that. Just, I'll cook my stuff. And, oh, it was, that was so fantastic.

David: I'm trying to remember all the food he brought out.

J.R.: It was an insane amount of food. It was enough for ten people. 

David: Well, and so, he brings out this first tray and there was some kind of bread. There was, I want to say man, I want to say mushrooms, tomatoes, 

J.R.: And I'm not a mushroom guy, but they were fantastic. 

David: Oh, I know. Yeah. And something else. And we thought, man, this looks great. And then he said, this [00:04:00] is only the starters. 

J.R.: Right. I made my favorite six appetizers. 

David: Yeah. So , the table was already full and we kind of begged him to sit down with us. And he said, no, no, no. I'm still, cooking the main courses and dessert. And yeah, then he brought out, I think a lamb dish. 

J.R.: Yes. Yeah, he brought out like, yeah, three or four main dishes. 

David: And there was two, yeah, there was, there was a handful of main dishes, and he brought out a couple bottles of his favorite wine. And I, we, it was just obscene, the feast that we had. 

J.R.: It was. And I even, I felt bad because I kept, you know, I'm looking at it thinking, man, you know we're not going to eat all this, right? 

David: Yeah. There's no way. Yeah. 

J.R.: I'll take it back to the family when you guys are done. Which only adds to the shame that I felt in insisting. Well, we didn't insist for dinner, I will say that.

David: No, no, it was. 

J.R.: For bringing it up to begin with. 

David: Yeah, it was, it was not our idea. I don't think. feel like we pressured him in any way. In fact, I felt [00:05:00] like he was more than happy. Like he wanted to go cook. It was off season. Yeah, it was off season. He clearly liked cooking and this is clearly like, okay, this is an excuse to get back in the kitchen, and do some cooking. And remember he even, I think he even said he was going into the village and he was going to buy groceries for it. So, you know, everything's fresh. Oh man, it was, it was so good. 

J.R.: That is a great memory. I wish I could remember his name. I mean, we could look up the hotel, but I wish I could remember his name. 

David: Yeah, under contact there's no, there's no name, no indication of who owns it, so. Alright, well we tried. 

J.R.: Yeah, I could dig through my stuff and I'd be able to - you're right, he did give us a card.

David: Yeah, I think we have a card too, so, anyway. We were trying to give him a shout out, but. 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, Hotel Philippeou, if you were in Philippi, that's the place to stay up on the hill. It's great. It's absolutely beautiful. And currently it is $81 a night. So very affordable. 

David: Yes, very. [00:06:00] Everything in Greece was actually very affordable, hotel wise. 

J.R.: It really was. I remember I came back and I told people, it's like, man, we'd stop by and we'd see the the Gyro pork spinning and cooking and it, oh, it smelled so good. And we would stop and we're like, okay, we'll get one of those and it comes with fries and a drink. And it was like the equivalent of like four dollars. I remember thinking, we'll just, we'll just do this every night. This is completely fine by me. Nonstop. Everything was super, super inexpensive there. 

David: Yeah. Very affordable to travel around.

J.R.: Apparently the COVID inflation hadn't hit there yet. Like it has in the States where you're not going to McDonald's for less than $15. 

David: Yeah. Well, I think it may be even the opposite. They're still trying to recover from the monetary collapse.

J.R.: Yeah. They've definitely got their own history of issues.

David: I think they're still trying to recover. But yeah, actually, it's good for us. Makes it very affordable to go around, eat at good restaurants, stay at nice hotels. All for way cheaper than you could [00:07:00] do here in the States, so. 

J.R.: Yeah, no, it was absolutely great. Anyway, Hotel Philipeou. Okay, so I got you off track. Where are we going today? This is our final episode.

David: It is. So this is the final episode in the series on Philippians, A Journey Through Philippi. And just a couple of reminders. One reason we did this series is because I have a new book out. I've gotten some good feedback. If I could kind of, self-promote a little bit here, which I hate doing, but I'll do it here.

J.R.: Sure, no, go for it. 

David: But, you know, I've heard that people who have read the other books in the series have said this one seems much more focused, which is affirming, because to me, this is much more on the format that I wanted to land on. In fact, part of me wants to go back and rewrite the others, but I think every author probably wrestles with that.

J.R.: Well yeah, you grow it, you know, you kind of 

David: Yeah, you grow as a writer. You grow, in terms of like the growth of this whole series that I've been doing on a journey through Ephesus and Colossae and now Philippi, [00:08:00] that you start to land on a nice format and you start to figure out what's working and what it is that you really wanted to express. Anyway, I say all that just because some of the early feedback that I'm getting is people are seeing that and they're like this is much more focused than the other books. Even though there's a lot of good information in the other books, this is much more focused, and so that was good feedback to hear.

J.R.: Yeah, it's very readable, easy to read and I like how you start off, sort of like we're doing the podcast, start off with a story of when we were there and then kind of tie it into the biblical stories. And, no, it's very readable, very good book. 

David: Cool, cool, yeah. So, that's why we're doing this because it's new, it's out now. It's available on Amazon, whatever online store you get your books at, you can download it or you can get it off Amazon for paperback, as well. And so this series is kind of hitting some of the big ideas in that book, but certainly not all of them because the book goes into a lot more depth.

We're just [00:09:00] picking one chapter an episode, and hitting on a big idea. So, we've already covered this idea of what it means to live as a citizen in chapter one. We talked about that downward descent of Christ, that poem in chapter two. <Right.> How that kind of ties into what it means to live as a citizen, right? <Right.> And then, we talked about the training regimen in chapter three, really revolving around all these athletic metaphors. <Right. Yep.> 

And so, alright, so one more thing. Yeah, we're gonna run a lot of rabbit trails today. So, I was curious about that whole Leon Lett situation, where he was running for a defensive touchdown and a guy batted the ball out of his hand. <Oh, yeah.> Remember that right? All right So I I was trying to remind myself of that. So here's what happened. That was actually in a Super Bowl. Okay, and so the next year it wasn't quite the same event, but the next year on [00:10:00] Thanksgiving Day, the team they were playing the Cowboys because he played for the Cowboys lined up to kick a field goal to win the game. And the field goal was blocked. And the ball is spinning. And no one was touching it. The Dallas players were all surrounding it. Saying, no one touch it, no one touch it. Because as soon as the ref blows the whistle right, the ball is dead and the game is over. And he, inexplicably, slid in to try and recover the ball when there was no need to.

And he kicks it, and it goes into the end zone, and a Kansas City player fell on it in the end zone, which means they got another kick. And they kicked the field goal and won.

J.R.: Wait a second, who got another kick? 

David: The opposing team. I think it was Kansas City, but I'm not sure. The opposing team. So somehow, when he touched it, it made it a live ball. And Kansas City recovered, but it, because it was a block or [00:11:00] something like that, it actually was a do over. And, you know, you can watch this. 

J.R.: Well, maybe it wasn't a fourth down kick. 

David: Yeah, maybe it was something like that. But yeah, the result was that Kansas City basically got to kick again, if that's who they were playing. And they kicked it and won. When the game was just all, all anyone had to do is do nothing. And so this same guy that had made that blunder in the Super Bowl the year before, <Oh gosh.> tries to slide in inexplicably and recover this ball that there was no need to recover. And yeah, it led to a re kick and the other team won, so.

J.R.: So if that were modern day, well, meaning social media days, it'd be all over the place, that it would be a conspiracy theory, that it's all about Taylor Swift winning, or something like that. 

David: Oh yeah, if it was, if it was the Chiefs, yeah. <Yeah.> It would be the Taylor Swift effect. 

J.R.: Right, yeah, there's all kinds of great conspiracies about the Chiefs winning. You know, lack of tackling on Mahomes. It's, yeah, those are always fun to watch. Man, no, I didn't know that. How would you like [00:12:00] that to be your legacy? <Yeah, yeah.> That's two huge boneheaded plays. 

David: Two of the most boneheaded plays you will ever see in back to back seasons by this same guy. But, you know, he was like all pro. He was actually a very good player. Just maybe not the brightest player in the moment, you know. But anyway, so we talked about all these athletic metaphors last episode around Chapter 3.

J.R.: Yeah, that was fun. 

David: So, yeah. So today we're going to look at Chapter 4, wrap up this series. And as I gave the teaser last episode that chapter four covers two or three different things. I was kind of actually torn what to talk about, because he hits on two or three different topics as he wraps his letter up to the Philippian church.

J.R.: Yeah, I was about to say, he's kind of tying it all together for the church, you know. <Yeah, yeah.> And so when you summarize anything, you're kind of going to grab two or three different ideas. 

David: Yeah, before we kind of wrap up here, I would just want to cover these two or three things, okay. So, but one of them is this idea of money. And there's this [00:13:00] weird thread that runs through the letter. And some commentaries will actually say this is the main point of the letter. I don't think it is the main point of the letter. I think it's a side issue. But nevertheless, it's something that Paul feels like he needs to address.

And it's one of those things, when you first read through it, it kind of seems weird to our modern sensibilities. And we're going to get into that. And we're going to get into why it sounds weird and how to best understand why Paul brings up what he brings up. All right? 

J.R.: Okay. All right. Where are we starting?

David: So we are starting in chapter 4. We're going to look at verses 10 to 19. But before we start reading two of these sections, I just want to kind of hit the part that sounds weird to us real quick as a means of introducing this. Okay. <Okay.> So in verse 10, Paul talks about how much they were concerned for him. And he says, indeed, you were concerned, but you had no opportunity to show it, and he's basically thanking them for their concern and their help, which we'll get into [00:14:00] that in a minute. But then in verse 11, he says, "I'm not saying this because I'm in need."

Okay, so it's kind of this, on one hand, it's like, man, thanks for your help. But, oh, by the way, I didn't really need it, right? I'm not saying this because I needed your help. And then you see the ...

J.R.: Yeah, well, it's almost like he's clarifying that he appreciates the gesture, but don't think that, what, that they should feel obliged or obligated to help maybe?

David: Yeah, yeah. So it's a little bit of that. So, that's the first instance. And then we see the same thing at the end of this section, where he's thanking them again for specifically their gifts. And in the original it's very clearly it's monetary gifts. "You sent me aid more than once when I was in need." But then in verse 17 he says, "Not that I desire your gifts." <Hehehe.> Right? I've received full payment. 

J.R.: Well, maybe he's a little self conscious about it. 

David: Yeah, yeah. So it kind of reads as this, you know, twice Paul says, hey, thanks for supporting me, thanks for giving me gifts. But each [00:15:00] time he comes back and then he says, Hey, not that I need it though. And to me, it just struck me as funny. I don't know how it strikes you as you first read through this, but it kind of ...

J.R.: Well, it's, me being 50 years old and mom and dad still paying for dinner when we go out to eat. That's going to be the line. You know, it's always like, hey, thank you guys for dinner. Not that I needed this. <Yeah.> You know, I have a job and, right?

David: I could have paid for this myself, more than happy.

J.R.: You always, you always want to clarify, but you know, their mom and dad. So maybe it's something like that. 

David: Yeah. Well, the way it strikes me is it's like saying, Hey, thanks for helping me out. Not that I needed it at all. And to which point, if I'm the giver, I think my response would be something like, well, then why did I give it to you, you know? Like well if twice if I gave you a gift and you said hey, thanks. I didn't really need it. It's like well, okay I'm not gonna give it anymore or give it back if you don't want it, right? <Right.> And I was thinking ...

J.R.: Well, I was gonna say if you and I [00:16:00] went out to eat and I paid for it or you paid for dinner, the first thing I'm going to say is, oh man, hey, thanks. But then usually the second thing that I'll say is, you didn't need to do that. You know what I'm saying? It's like, hey man, I appreciate it. You didn't have to do that. You know, unless it's, my birthday or something like that and it's understood. But yeah, just sort of, hey, thanks, but you didn't have to do that. So we almost kind of throw that out there sort of the same way. And maybe, he's sort of saying the same thing. But you're right if you've got people that are sacrificing, certainly sending their hard earned money to support Paul, maybe that's not what they want to hear. <Right.> They want to hear that, yeah, it made a huge difference. I couldn't have done it without you. 

David: And as we'll start to unpack here, this is not just, hey, Paul, if you're in town, we'll buy you dinner, right? This, this is, this is a lot more support. This is actually, they were very committed to supporting Paul, to helping Paul, and it just kind of strikes me funny on the surface that Paul's response on two different occasions right in this little [00:17:00] section was, Hey, I didn't need it. But, you know, it's, it's more for your sake than mine. To which case I might think well, I'll just keep my wallet in my pocket then, you know? 

J.R.: Yeah, next time I'll, yeah, hang on to my money and take the family out to dinner instead. Yeah, yeah. Right. No, I gotcha. 

David: Well, so throughout the letter, there's little hints of this, and then it becomes more explicit here in this section, but the Philippian Church actually was known for their support of Paul, and their giving to Paul. And so, actually, let's, we're gonna jump around in here, but let's read verses 15 to 16. And <Okay.> I have it up. I'll read these real quick, so. <Okay.> Philippians 4:15 says, "Moreover, as you Philippians know, in the early days of your acquaintance with the gospel when I set out from Macedonia, not one church shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving, except you only. For even when [00:18:00] I was in Thessalonica, you sent me aid more than once when I was in need." Okay, so he's establishing the fact here, and we know from the account in Acts when Paul travels through Philippi that the Philippian church was known from the very beginning of being big supporters of Paul. Yeah, and Paul even says here, you know, look there was a time when you were the only church that was supporting me, right?

J.R.: Yeah, yeah, he kind of throws the other churches under the bus. 

David: Yeah a little bit.

J.R.: Didn't hear from anybody else, you know, but you guys helped on. But you're right that so he does kind of - he sort of obviously singles them out and says thank you guys for your support. But then you're right, the very next verse says, "Not that I seek the gift, but I seek the fruit that increases to your credit." <Right.> So it's like, as if to say, you know, it's on you. You're the ones that benefited from it, not me. 

David: Yeah. Hey, you guys really helped me out. And then, you know, he says, so what happens here is when Paul first goes to Philippi, they supported him. They helped him. Then he goes to Thessalonica next, right? Because that's, on the Via Egnatia, that would [00:19:00] be the next place you would go, is Thessalonica. And we made that journey ourselves, a couple hours away. <Right.> And so that's where Paul goes. Well, remember in Thessalonica is where Paul was seeing some fruit there as well, but then the Jewish synagogue in the city stir trouble up and they run him out of town.

And that's when he goes to the coast, and then that's when he goes to Athens. And his co workers stay there, and they take another route. And Paul says, I'll meet you in Athens. <Okay> And so this is the event that he's referencing here, because he says, "Even when I was in Thessalonica, you sent me aid." So, when he's in Thessalonica, he had just been in Philippi, so not only are they supporting Paul when he's in Philippi, they're sending support forward to Thessalonica to help him out there as well.

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. So it's not just benefiting their own local culture. It's benefiting outsiders. 

David: Right. Yeah. <Yeah.> Okay. So that's the context we see here. And then in other places in this letter too, we know [00:20:00] that Paul's writing this from Rome, while he's in prison. And one of the reasons he's writing this letter, Philippians, is because they had sent someone from their congregation, a guy named Epaphroditus, to Rome with more gifts, and actually to be there with Paul and help him out. <Right.> Right, so Epaphroditus was the representative from the Church of Philippi, who went to Rome to help minister to Paul, and bringing gifts with him. 

J.R.: Right. I read somewhere where they even believed that Epaphroditus was the one writing the letter. <The one writing?> Well, meaning that Paul is dictating it to him as he writes.

David: I can see that.

J.R.: Basically kind of, yeah, that it's a scribe and anyway, it goes down a different rabbit trail. But right, that Epaphroditus is not just delivering, you know, the gift basket. He's actually going up there to assist Paul in whatever he needs. Because its not like he's in a prison, like we think of today. He's probably under a [00:21:00] house arrest type thing. <Yeah, yeah.> He can have assistants. He can have people helping him out. 

David: Yeah, people can come and go right? He can't come and go but people can come and go. 

J.R.: Right. So they sent Epaphroditus up there to run his errands to do what he needed to do. And perhaps one of the things that he did is maybe as a scribe write some things down, some notes down for Paul.

David: Yeah. Or certainly updated Paul about what was happening in Philippi. So Paul knew how to craft this letter back to them. <Right.> And then Epaphroditus almost certainly delivered the letter back to them because one of the other things we read early on in this letter is that Epaphroditus got sick. And Paul says elsewhere " I find it necessary to send Epaphroditus back to you." Because he's basically saying like look if this guy gets worse and he dies over here, I'm going to feel terrible. So look, again, thanks for the support, you know. And you really get the picture that Philippi supported Paul like no other church did. 

J.R.: Right. In several different ways. That's right, Yeah. 

David: In [00:22:00] several different ways. And Paul's like, look, I'm going to feel terrible. So I'm just sending a Epaphroditus back. I'm sending him with this letter and all the content we've already talked about. But then also, man, thank you, thank you, thank you for supporting me. But then as we've seen, but not that I needed it. 

J.R.: Right. So, where's that coming from then? 

David: Yeah. So that's what we're going to get into. All right. So I think there's a understanding here in the ancient world that helps shed some light on why Paul is talking to them the way he's talking to them. Okay? <Okay.> All right. So let's go back to verse 10 in chapter 4. 

J.R.: Verse 10 says, "I rejoiced in the Lord greatly now at length you have revived your concern for me. You were indeed concerned for me, but you had no opportunity." Okay. 

David: Yeah, so that's little weird statement, right? Like, you were concerned, but you had no opportunity to show it. <Right.> And what a lot of people think Paul's referencing is that, when he's [00:23:00] arrested in Jerusalem, and he's imprisoned in Caesarea in Judea, and then they send him to Rome, he's on a ship, there would have been a pretty lengthy amount of time where a church like Philippi didn't know where to send Paul's support.

J.R.: Okay, yeah, that makes sense. 

David: Yeah, right. So that makes a little bit more sense, like, you know, you were concerned, but you had no opportunity to show it. Because what he's probably referencing is you didn't know where to send people. You didn't know where to send funds. You didn't know where to send, you know, maybe food and other necessities.

J.R.: You didn't know where I was at. So you didn't know where I was at. Sit and wait for somebody to send word where I was at. Then you could turn around and send Epaphroditus or whatever to help support. 

David: Yeah, <Okay.> So then that's where verse 11 comes in, and we see one of these about faces, at least to us. He says, "I'm not saying this because I'm in need. I've learned to be content whatever the circumstances."

J.R.: Right. And that's one of those famous verses, you know, that whatever [00:24:00] situation I'm in. 

David: It is. Yeah. Yeah. 

J.R.: To be content. Right. 

David: So what Paul, in this verse, what Paul's really getting at is this idea of contentment. So he's saying, if I don't desire a lot of things, then I don't need a lot of things, right? So sure. In this first instance, I don't think what Paul saying is so much like, Hey, I didn't need your support. Paul's more saying I've learned to be content with what I've been given. And so if you give me nothing more, that's fine, right?

J.R.: Right. I can work with that. 

David: Yeah. Now this idea of contentment, actually, this kind of ties into Stoic philosophy. And it's much more probably explicitly tied to Stoic philosophy than we realize, because this Greek word for contentment is autarkes, and it's not used very much in the New Testament, but Paul uses this word here. And we've seen this several times in Philippians, where Paul uses a particular word he [00:25:00]doesn't use elsewhere that has a specific meaning in Greek philosophy. And contentment, this word autarkes, meant accepting whatever comes your way. And it means that it's out of your control, so why worry about it?

J.R.: Okay. Well, that's interesting, because that's what kind of popped in my head, you know, this idea of contentment. And there's a Stoic idea, and I don't know it, but I was reading it. Basically there's two ways to view life, and one is that the assumption is that my world could be perfect if it weren't for any number of imperfections, whether it be sickness or difficult people or an unreasonable boss, right? Whatever. <Yeah.> Right. And the problem is that that reinforces this idea that if it weren't for you, my life would be better. Or if it weren't for this, my life would be better. And so that's one way to view life, that it could be perfect if not for all these imperfections that are bombarding my life, you know, these speed bumps in my way.

And the other one is a more stoic [00:26:00] idea, and this is what you're talking about, that the world kind of is what it is, and I'm going to do the best with what's in front of me and use that to my advantage. And the good thing about that is you can use that approach anywhere in the world at any time in history, right? <Yeah.> And, and so it's kind of that understanding of contentment isn't merely being happy, you know, naively happy. It's kind of a deeper joy despite your circumstances, you know? It's actually kind of the most helpful worldview regardless of your circumstances. Because you can take that worldview and apply it, whether you're in a third world country or whether you live in the United States or whether you live in a difficult time in the past or with the modern conveniences and that you can use that idea of whatever's in front of me, I'm going to use that to the best of my advantage and move forward in life. As opposed to this idea that the world could be perfect with all these things weren't hitting me, you know, coming at me the wrong way.

David: It's interesting because in my reading this morning, I was just reading something very similar that is more a [00:27:00] modern perspective that says one of the things we suffer from today is the expectation that as the world gets better and better, I should be more happy. <Right.> You know, and so he points out that the more we have this expectation of happiness, actually the more dissatisfied we are with life. Even though, objectively, life is better, right? Life is better now than it's ever been. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah, but it's like the first world countries, the richest countries in the world have the highest suicide rate. You know what I mean? You don't hear about suicide in sub Saharan Africa or it's extremely low if it exists at all. You know, and why in the world would that be, you know? Yeah, I think you're right. I think it's the realization that I do have all these things sitting in front of me. I do have a house and easy access to a car and a decent job, and I'm still not happy, right? And maybe that's where you kind of get that overwhelming sense of there's nothing more in this [00:28:00] life and to the point that you take your own life, that there's no reason for living. Whereas in a difficult circumstances, like we said, Sub Saharan Africa, , you at least know you have to work to put food on the table and, I guess you just have other things to worry about then.

David: Well, exactly. Yeah, the book I was reading labeled it the problem of progress, which is, you know, we get angsty because our life doesn't have enough meaning, right? Or I'm just not happy. And throughout most of history, as you pointing out, man, if I just lived another day, you know without being attacked by a lion on my way to gather food, well, it was a good day. <Yeah.> Right? 

J.R.: Yeah, tell a farmer in the 1700s that your life doesn't have meaning and watch him laugh at you. <Yeah, yeah.> You know meaning how about just putting food on the table? 

David: Yeah, how about just surviving; how about you know having four kids and they all actually survived to adulthood. <Right.> And your wife didn't die in [00:29:00] childbirth, you know. 

J.R.: Yeah, how's that for meaning? 

David: Yeah, how's that, how's that for meaning? So, yeah, so it's just interesting to contrast, this modern problem. I like that idea of the problem of progress, this modern problem with what ties all the way back to Paul's time is this stoic philosophy that says, look, life is a struggle. And you're not really gonna change that, but you can, like we were just talking about, you can control your perspective on things. <Right.> And that's very much tied to this idea of contentment, which I thought was really cool when I started to really understand, because, you know, that's a very well known verse, right: "I've learned to be content whatever the circumstances." And that's very philosophical that Paul's drawing on. He's drawing on this idea of contentment. I don't need things. I can't control everything that happens to me. So I'm just going to be content with what I have and I'm going to make the best of it. I'm going to make a go of it with what's in front of me, right? 

J.R.: Right. And you're right, it's [00:30:00] deeper than just the simple, yeah, you may not have the, raise at work or you may not have the house you want, but, you know. Stick it out. You'll get it. And you know, be happy with what you, it's like, no, it's a lot deeper than that. It's like, no, I can have absolutely nothing and still find what's in front of me joyful. Find joy about what's in front of me whether it be my relationships or whether it be my opportunities of moving forward. But no, you're right contentment is a much deeper idea than the way we read it in our modern Western lens.

David: Yeah. So this word that we talked about, the original language, is word that Socrates even used in some of his writings. And I read this quote that I really found humorous, is this ancient writer, Diogenes Laertius, was talking about Socrates. And there's a quote where he says, "Often when he looked at the multitude of wares exposed for sale in the market, he would say to himself, 'how many things I can do without.'"

And [00:31:00] it's tied to this word usage of contentment. That was his idea of contentment. And it's just funny to me. Can you imagine going to the mall and just saying, man, I love walking around the mall because look at all this crap that I don't need. 

J.R.: That I don't need. <Right.> I actually have that feeling sometimes. <Oh, yeah?> Yeah. Yep. No, my kids love Lululemon. And I don't know if you know anything about that store. We were there yesterday. But anyway, it was just, I'll pick up a shirt and I'm like, Oh, this is kind of cool. You know? Of course, I look at the price and then realize, yeah, I don't need this.

David: Look, here's a hundred dollars shirt that I can absolutely do without. I will be content. 

J.R.: Yeah. I will be content with the TEMU version of this shirt for $4. 

David: Is it a knockoff like LuluLime or something like that? 

J.R.: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. We found that out in Turkey. 

David: Oh yeah. Remember those headphones? What were they called?

J.R.: Dr. Dry. 

David: Dr. Dry. Yeah.

J.R.: Beats by Dr. Dry. D R Y. [00:32:00] Yeah, I took a picture of it and I was like, yeah, these are legit, dude. 

David: Didn't you even get a pair for your son and he was kind of irritated? It was when Dr. Dre, Beats, were really popular. 

J.R.: Yeah, the Studio Beats. Yeah, I got a pair for Gage you know, cause I was thinking, ah, look, his friends aren't going to know. And he listened to him for, I don't know, all the 10 minutes. It's like, man, these things stink.

It's like, Hey man, it's all about the name. It has the legit B logo on the side. That's all your friends are going to matter. You know, hang them around your neck, right? 

David: Cause your friends don't have any Dr. Dry headphones. 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. It was great, the knockoffs. There are tons of them. 

David: Yeah. So that's this idea of contentment. And it has this really rich meaning that we don't always understand. I think I've only recently learned. So that's what Paul says. "I'm not saying this because I'm in need. I've learned to be content." And then that's confirmed in verse 12, I have it in front of me. I'll just go ahead and read it here. He says, "So I know what it is to be in [00:33:00] need. I know what it is to have plenty. I've learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry. Whether living in plenty or in want." So that kind of confirms this reading that it doesn't matter what my circumstances are. I've learned to just accept it, and I've learned that that's my reality, and I'll make the best of it moving forward.

J.R.: Right, yeah. Well, it keeps you out of that, well that word need, I like that too, because we use that word, I need something. We say we need things all the time and they're not necessities, you know. It's sort of like we say, I'm starving. It's like, no, you're not starving. You just mean, you just mean you're kind of hungry, right?

But we say that all the time, we need something. And Paul's just kind of reminding us don't fall into that need trap, you know? Man, I need whatever a new car or I need a better job or I need more supportive people around me and all those things are fine, but don't confuse those for necessities. <Right.> Those aren't necessities. Those are just, you know, if you can get them, great, but if not use what's in [00:34:00] front of you. Yeah. The need trap. 

David: That's a good point. Because we have, you know, this is a first world problem. We have, even in our language, we say how much we need, we say things like I'm starving, I'm gonna die if I don't get my afternoon cold brew.

J.R.: Right, right. Yeah. 

David: Yeah, so we fall into this trap of how dire we think our world is from day to day and we really have no idea, you know. 

J.R.: Sure. And some of it's just kind of humorous drama. But at the same time, you're right, we kind of do throw it out there all the time. And if, somebody from Paul's time listened to us, boy, the eye rolls would.

David: Yeah, exactly.

J.R.: Yeah. He'd think, man, what a, what a bunch of weak, weak people, you know. Can't get through an afternoon. 

David: So this idea of contentment, I think is really why in this first instance, Paul can say, look, I'm not saying this because I am in need. This is what he's really [00:35:00] talking about. But I also think it helps shed light on what I think is one of the most misunderstood verses in the Bible, which is Philippians 4:13. And do you want to read it? You probably have it memorized, but. 

J.R.: Let's see. Oh, sure. Yeah. Philippians 4:13: "I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."

David: Right. Yeah. We all know that verse. And maybe it's not used this way so much anymore, but I've heard this verse in the past, people claiming it basically to say, I can accomplish great things, right? <Right.> Because I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength. Right. Man, I want to land that job, or I want to land a big book deal and if I just think it enough and pray about it, I can do it because Christ is my strength, you know. <Right, yeah.> I don't know if you heard kind of, it's similar.

J.R.: Oh goodness. Yes. Yeah. Sure. Okay. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is the, key verse for the prosperity gospel. 

David: Well, yeah, that's true. [00:36:00]

J.R.: Name it and claim it, man. Yeah, sure. This is the way to kind of ...

David: I can you know me and ...

J.R.: use God as your genie type thing. 

David: Yeah. me and God, we can take on the world, .

J.R.: Right, right. No, you're right though. I see what you're saying though. 'cause you're talking about this idea being in need and whatever situation I am to be content. So you're saying that he's not saying that the name it and claimant narrative, he's saying that I can. What, that I can, deal, I can endure anything is, is, is probably a better way of saying it.

David: I think endure, I think endure is actually a better word. I can endure any circumstance through Christ who gives me strength. 

J.R.: Yeah, no, no, no, I like that. Yeah, I think you're so right, because this, is constantly misunderstood in a way. And you're right that it changes the way you view God if you misunderstand this verse.

<Yeah, yeah.> Because there's a huge difference between saying, Through Christ, I can get that promotion. Right? <Yeah. Yeah.> And through, and through Christ, I can endure this less than perfect situation, right? That I can hold onto this. <Right.> Those are two different, totally different ways ...

David: Vastly different things.

J.R.: Of facing [00:37:00] difficulty. Yeah. Yeah, and if you think God's in the business of making all your wildest dreams come true, then, you know, you're disappointed and bitter when things don't turn out that way. 

David: Right. Right. And that actually goes back to that problem of progress. That if that's how you view the world, that me and God, I'm gonna accomplish all these things in life and all these good things are gonna come my way. The reality is you're probably going to be deeply disappointed with what you actually, with what your life actually consists of. 

J.R.: Right, yeah. Yeah, that's one of those things I'm gonna have to make a note. 

David: Which again is the opposite of contentment, right? It's the opposite of this Stoic idea that I can't control what happens in life except how I respond to the things that happen to me. That's the only thing I can control. 

J.R.: Yeah Well, and I just like that he kind of sort of says that whether I have plenty or whether I have nothing I can find contentment. Because you see people [00:38:00] run to both extremes. Hedonism is the one extreme where I'm gonna try to get as much stuff and, , find as much pleasure as I possibly can. And then the opposite of that is what would that be? The monks 

David: Yeah, yeah, the, very aesthetic lifestyle, right? 

J.R.: Aesthetic, yeah, yeah, asceticism, yeah. Yeah. Where nothing is, quote unquote good, and so I'm gonna deny myself. And so you're constantly, intentionally denying yourself. And that's not really the extreme that Paul's talking about either. He's saying, find contentment wherever you're at. <Yeah.> That if you happen to be sitting at the Chinese buffet, man enjoy it. That, you know, go get a second plate by all means. Yeah. But don't run around say that you're starving 24 hours later, because you're not, right? <Right.> Just find contentment with what you have. <Right.> Because through Christ, you can endure any of those things. 

David: And, you know, I can picture Paul - if you think about it - I can picture Paul arriving in Philippi, not knowing how he's going to be received, and he's received really well, and he's opened up to hospitality. Lydia opens her home, right? [00:39:00] Probably, knowing Greek culture, probably they have a feast that night for Paul. , which kind of ties back to the opening story of our experience of that dinner at that hotel. It's just, you know, you're so gluttonously stuffed. 

J.R.: Right, right. I was definitely content in that moment.

David: Oh yeah, I was very content. 

J.R.: But then you're right, 24 hours later, Paul's in prison. 

David: But then you're, yeah. 

J.R.: Cast out the demon of the girl. 

David: Yeah, exactly. So then he's in prison, and you know, he hits the road for Thessalonica, and who knows if he got anything to eat for the next couple days as he travels. And I'm sure more than once, you know, Timothy's like, Hey, Paul, when are we going to eat? And he's like, well, maybe tomorrow I think we hit another village tomorrow, maybe things will look better there, you know? 

J.R.: Yeah. We hadn't passed a McDonald's here lately. <Yeah.> Deal with it. 

David: Right. I think that's kind of the context when Paul says this. But yeah, I just think when you start to unpack that little section there, [00:40:00] I think it takes on a whole new meaning than how we typically take it. Right? 

J.R.: Yeah. Well, it's easy to post that on your Instagram feed. But you're right when you have a little bit of context of this entire chapter and certainly through the lens of the entire book, you really can see that. That he's not talking about, man, I can do anything. I can plant 10 churches here if I want to, you know, through Christ who gives me strength. He's basically saying I can endure what's in front of me and embrace that stoic philosophy. I like that. 

David: Yeah. And then verse 14 kind of finishes that section by just saying, "Yet it was good for you to share in my troubles." So again, it's this back and forth. Thanks for your gift, I didn't need it. But again, it was good for you to reach out to me. But by the way, you know, I truly embrace contentment. So if you sent me nothing, I would have been fine. Right? <Yeah, right.> Alright, so ...

J.R.: But again, it's not him saying that I don't appreciate your gift, you know. It's him trying to teach the Philippians what the idea of contentment is. 

David: Yeah, I think that's right. 

J.R.: [00:41:00] He's turning around trying to help them. You know, I appreciate it. It's helpful. But I've, you know, if you can also learn from me how to be content, then we can all move forward with the lot that we've been given and what's sitting right in front of us. And yeah, I think that's, I think he's kind of using it as a teaching opportunity also. 

David: Yeah, I think he saw this as a good teaching moment. Yeah. Yeah, hey, I'm thankful for what you're giving me, but, you know, hey, let me use this as a teaching moment to teach you about contentment. and my perspective on the world, so. 

J.R.: Yeah, this is clearing it up.

David: Okay. So let's move on to this next couple of verses because he continues on with this train of thought of their giving versus his response to saying, but I don't really need it. Right? We already read verse 16 where it says, "Even when I was in Thessalonica, you sent me aid." But then verse 17 again, he says, "Not that I desired your gifts. What I desired is that more be credited to your account." Now that's an interesting way of phrasing that as [00:42:00] well. But he's saying, you know, again, you helped me out. I didn't really desire your gifts. I'm not sitting there in Thessalonica thinking, man, I hope the Philippian church bails me out here, right?

<Right.> But he's saying what I wanted, and he uses this phrase, I wanted it to be credited to your account. Which, again, is this idea that your giving is for your benefit, it's not necessarily for me, right? 

J.R.: Yeah. Well, it kind of goes back to the teaching idea of you want to see your kid's share. And, you know, like, it's not a big deal that the kid gives the toy to the other kid as far as to each other. But as a parent, you're like, oh, there, that's what I want to see. I want to see sacrifice. I want to see that you're willing to give these things up that you're not grabbing all the toys and pulling them as close as you can. Right? <Yeah. Yeah.> That you're out sharing. And so I think he's kind of maybe as a father figure looking back and saying, yeah, this is to your credit, I love seeing this out of you. <Yeah.> I didn't see it out of the other churches. <Yeah, yeah.> Right? 

David: Well, [00:43:00] so there's an ancient idea here that I think helps clear up some of what's going on. So we've already talked about this idea that Paul's using this as a teaching moment. He's tying it back to some philosophy that they would understand. But when I read through this bigger idea in the ancient world of arrangements between two parties, I think it really cleared it up for me. And so, I just want to briefly hit on this idea. 

So, there were financial arrangements in the ancient world, and the first one we've already talked about is simple hospitality. Right? It's this law of Xenia. Sometimes you might have heard of that. But, you know, it's, and it's interesting that we were in Greece, and we kind of experienced this. Right? This guy goes above and beyond to put a huge spread of food in front of us, when he didn't need to. 

J.R.: You see this other places in the Bible where hospitality is much more important than if somebody comes into your what is it? If somebody comes to your house, you invite them in, give them a [00:44:00] place to stay, give them a meal, right? You know, that we're supposed to do that. And I'm, missing the verses that say that, but it's, actually all through the Old and New Testament. 

David: Yeah, it's all through the Old Testament as well.

J.R.: Right. Yeah. And to kind of provide, be a hospitable host. And it goes back to this idea. It's a little bit strange for us because if somebody knocked on your door - a stranger, you know saying hey, I'm traveling through St. Pete. Do you mind if I crash in here? You'd be calling the cops, right? 

David: Right? Yeah No, you deadbeat, you know, get off my lawn. 

J.R.: But back in ancient times when you had a village of maybe 50 people, you know, you kind of knew everybody and, it's either sleep outside where the wolves and coyotes can pick at you or, you can, hopefully sleep in somebody's walled garden or in somebody's house, even, right? <Yeah.> and that we should offer that. 

David: Yeah, yeah. <Yeah.> I saw a lot of this. I mentioned a couple of episodes ago that I'm reading through the Odyssey. I'm almost done. I'm almost getting to the conclusion here. Yeah. But this is another example of [00:45:00] this Greek culture that you see all throughout a story like the Odyssey, really in explicit form. So, you know, some of the main characters like Odysseus himself, he'll wash up on an island. No one knows who he is, and he makes his way to the palace on the island, the king. And the first thing the king does, and this happens multiple times, is he says welcome stranger, you, I don't know what brought you here, but you're free to stay the night, and we're gonna have a banquet, you know, go kill a pig. the wine flows, the bard's gonna do his thing, musicians, you know, snap, snap. And it's this whole huge banquet, right? And what's interesting is the story makes even explicit that they don't even ask why he's there until the morning. So, you know, the king will say, Get a good night's rest, and in the morning, I'll find out why you're here and what you want. Because ...

J.R.: Yeah, it seems like they get that, mixed up. <Yeah. Yeah.> I wanna know why you're here [00:46:00] first. <Right.> Then we'll discuss. 

David: That's what we would say. Right. Right. But it's this Law of Xenia that said, you know, look, you owe a stranger a meal and a place to stay before you even In some cases, you can read, before you even ask their name. <Hmm.> Which is <Yeah.> kind of part of the story of The Odyssey is they don't even know who Odysseus is. Because they won't even ask his name until they've feasted and he's had a good night's rest And he's had a bath and has clean clothes. And then it's like, oh, okay, by the way, what's your name? You know?

J.R.: Yeah, that's so strange. Well, okay. So do you think this is you think we're missing this in our cult-? Well, we're clearly missing that in our culture. But do you but do you think we're missing something? Or do you think that since our communities have grown so large, that being hospitable to every stranger is just an impossibility.

David: Yeah, probably, well, for several reasons. You know, we are such a mobile society. I mean, you know, I live in a little vacation spot here where [00:47:00] thousands and thousands of people take vacations here. So, it's not like, you know, if I ran into every stranger and said, Hey, come to my house. First, my wife would probably leave me, but you just don't do that anymore because we're such a mobile society. You know, there's hotels around. We talked about this earlier. You go into these little villages, there would be no place to stay, but every little town has a hotel now. 

J.R.: Right. But because we have this infrastructure in place and that, you know, honestly, nobody's sleeping out on the street as far as traveling. <Traveling, yeah.> Typical, you know, yeah. But I think you're right because we have this infrastructure in place I'm wondering I guess the better question is what are we missing from our culture, in the modern time now that all these things are in place. That we don't have the opportunity to be hospitable like people in ancient times.

David: Yeah, And maybe, particularly in American culture, I think we tend to just give people space. And it's one of the things that you and I have seen traveling. People are much more open to [00:48:00]Hey, let me show you around. Let me tell you where to go. What do you need? <Right.> Right? Then you would run into - ah, you see pockets of it in the U.S. But I guess just as you were asking that question, that's a good question, I'm thinking we were raised in a household where our house was always open. 

J.R.: Oh, goodness. Yes. You know, we, the door was never locked. We said it before we came home from vacation and people would be swimming in our pool.

David: Exactly. Yeah. Like we would be gone for a week and we would come home like our friends were there watching TV and had food out of the refrigerator and we didn't even really think twice about it, you know? 

J.R.: Oh yeah. Yeah. And some people are listening right now thinking just screaming boundaries. <Yeah.> Establish some boundaries. And there is a, there's obviously a balance. I'm not saying that that's the way it should be. But it is that idea - and I think that was much more common <Yeah.> even 30, 40 years ago. You know, we'd ride our bikes around town and of course, whatever. I mean, we would go to not just friends houses, but we'd just go to people's [00:49:00] houses. And there was a friend of ours Charlie Custer, he passed away this last year, but we used to ride, me and a buddy used to ride up to his house and we would just knock on his door and he'd be cooking sausage. He's like, Hey guys, come on in and grab some sausage. And I mean, it got to be where the buddy of mine would come over to the house and said, Hey man, you think that guy's cooking breakfast this morning? I'm like, I don't know. Let's go see. You know, now that I grow up, I'm thinking, man, that was so weird. But I mean, to a kid that just, that was great, you know? <Yeah.> So no, I mean, I guess every generation kind of loses a little bit of hospitality probably by the opinion of the previous generation. But we've definitely have lost this in our culture and.

David: I would agree. Yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah. And, and I don't know how to recapture that other than just kind of do it in your own life. Be as hospitable as you can, but yeah, you're right.

David: I think it's a good reminder exactly, that in your own life, in your little circle of people who you interact with, you know, just keep that in mind. The, the power of [00:50:00] hospitality. But yeah, I think it's something that we've lost in our Western culture because it's still there when you travel. It's still there when you travel. But I think we would be shocked going back to the ancient world how it was just understood, this is how you treat the stranger. 

J.R.: Right, right. And the good thing about it is if you do show very little hospitality in our modern day, it's gonna be if you get you blow people away. I mean people are really <Yeah, yeah.> impressed by that and so you can really kind of have a bigger impact than if you had done the same act 50 years ago and certainly 2,000 years ago.

David: Yeah. Yeah. <Right.> Well, so that's that idea of simple hospitality of the law of Xenia. So a couple more that I want to cover. This was all outlined actually in Ben Witherington is a professor, and he's written a lot of commentaries, and he has an excellent line of commentaries, so I got to give him credit. I said in the past [00:51:00] sometimes, I can't remember where I read something, but I got to give Professor Witherington, credit, because I got this from him. But there's a second category of sending someone on their way, and you'll see that phrase in the Bible. you know, they sent Paul on his way. Well, he points out that that's a technical term that would mean you made sure that someone got safely out of town and you gave them a little bit of extra food and maybe some money, right, to get to the next village. And it's all tied up in that. 

J.R.: It's more than just standing in your driveway waving goodbye.

David: Waving goodbye, yeah. <Bye.> Yeah, so we see a phrase like, they sent Paul on his way. We don't think twice about that, but actually there's something implied in that. That they probably sent someone with him to the edge of town, maybe even to accompany him to the next place. They gave him some food, some traveling money, that was kind of another financial arrangement. <Okay.> And then in verse ...

J.R.: Yeah, that makes sense also as far as the journeying to the next town or journeying to the edge of town. <Right.> You know, [00:52:00] that's something you see, in several stories. So that's part of that concept of sending somebody on their way. Yeah, throw them a little gas money.

David: Right. Yeah, exactly. That's what we would say today. Give them a little gas money, make sure they have snacks, and call me when you get to the next town. You know, that's that idea of sending someone on their way. <Okay.> So there's also this idea of giving and receiving, and we actually see this in verse 15, where Paul says, "Not one of the churches shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving." And again, That phrase is a little bit technical, which it implied ongoing support. So it's kind of this financial arrangement where, you know, giving and receiving, right? I come to your church and you, we would say in the old days, we would say you'd take up a love offering for them. You know, remember that?

J.R.: Yeah, yeah, sure. 

David: Take up a, you know ... 

J.R.: We did that a lot. Yeah. Well, I'm thinking of the giving and receiving. I'm like, that's a two way street. But the giving is, I come to your church and give of myself to you, you know, as opposed to money back and forth. <Right, [00:53:00] yeah, yeah.> Okay, yeah, I gotcha.

David: Yeah. So, again, it's another example of a technical arrangement that we just read these words, giving and receiving, we don't really think about. But it's more of a technical arrangement that Paul's referring to. And then the last one that I really want to spend a couple minutes talking about, and then we'll wrap this conversation up, is the idea of patronage. And have this idea even today in our modern world, but it's more limited. You don't really see it that much. But in the ancient world it was much bigger, which is this idea of patronage. Which, if I'm a patron, then if you are a traveling philosopher, or if you are an artist, right, that I would support you, because I believe in what you're doing, and in return, you would become my client.

That means that you would, basically if you were a sculptor one of the first things I might say is hey I want to be your patron. It would allow you to sculpt full time. But then I'd say hey, I want a nice sculpture of my [00:54:00] wife for the living room, right? And it would be understood that as a sculptor you would you would do that for me because I'm supporting you.

J.R.: Right, okay. No, that makes sense to. Sort of a Kickstarter deal where we're gonna support somebody early on. And if you succeed, well, even if you don't, but if you succeed, the understanding is, you know, we'll share in the success, right? The patron would share in the success of the artist. 

David: Yeah. Yeah. And you might see this. I mean, you see it in all kinds of different ancient arrangements, this patronage, the patron-client relationship. So if you were a young, up and coming politician, I might say I'm gonna be your patron, right? But then it would be expected that, hey, I've got some issues that I want you to push through I want to see you support them, right?

J.R.: There's modern day politics, sure. 

David: So, we haven't lost that idea, have we? 

J.R.: Yeah, we've been holding on to that. 

David: Or if you were a traveling philosopher, I might say, hey, I'm gonna support you so you can hit the road. But when you come back, I want [00:55:00] you to teach my kids. You're going to be my kid's tutor. And so, as a client, if you had a patron supporting you, the point I'm really getting at here is that you are expected to show deference to your patron. And that was just understood. <Right.> Right, if the patron says, I want you to do this, you're going to do it because they're supporting you. 

J.R.: Well, I was going to try to liken it to, you know, missions, ongoing missions that we send money to continue the work of spreading the gospel throughout the world, or. But, but this is a little bit different that there's, it's more like if we support missions, we don't really expect anything in return. It's just an understanding of, right. And so you're saying with a patron, there's a little bit expected in return if there is success down the road.

David: Yeah, yeah. It's the expectation - look, a good modern example might be, I'm a wealthy philanthropist and I'm going to give my money, I'm going to give you a million dollars as an endowment to your school, right? [00:56:00] <Right.> There's an understanding in that relationship that if the school accepts that money, there are probably going to be some expectations that come with it, right? <Right.> Maybe I name a building after you, or maybe Hey, I'm going to give you a million dollars and, oh, by the way, my kid is going to apply to your school next year. And, you know, I don't expect any issues getting through, even though he's not, he's kind of a dumb kid, you know, but still. 

J.R.: Yeah, troublemaker.

David: Yeah, but I don't expect any issues getting him through. You know, we kind of hear stories about this and we can laugh about it. But there is that expectation that I'm going to give you a large sum of money as a, quote, donation. But by accepting that donation, I know that there are certain expectations, we might even say strings attached.

J.R.: Right. Okay, I think I see where you're going. You're saying that Paul is saying these things, I don't need your gift - I thank you for them, but I don't need them - because he's trying [00:57:00] to clarify that this is not a patronage arrangement. Is that what you're, where you're going with this?

David: Yeah, exactly. I think that helps shed light on what Paul's doing here, because <Yes.> I wonder, because the Philippian church kept sending Paul money, you know, he's traveling, hey we're gonna send you money. You're in Thessalonica, we're gonna send you money. You're in Corinth, we're gonna send you money. You're in Rome, we're gonna send Epaphroditus, and he's gonna have some, you know, funds along with him. That I almost wonder, in the back of Paul's mind, and I think you got it exactly right, is he thinking to himself, Hey, do they think that they're my patron now? 

J.R.: Yeah, I hope they don't expect me to write a book of the Bible based on them.

David: Right, yeah, I hope you don't think that my letter to you is going to be included in the Bible, and it's going to be called Philippians.

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. Okay, no, that makes [00:58:00] sense, though. So what do you think that, what would they have expected then? If it was a patronage situation, what would the church have expected? 

David: Well, I just wonder if Paul was a little concerned that there was some expectations growing. And let's just throw some ideas out, you know, let's just throw some examples - that maybe once Paul gets released from prison, we've supported you, you know, Paul, we're big supporters. Why don't you come back to Philippi and, you know, be our, yeah, let's be our pastor, right? 

J.R.: Let's grow this church. Let's turn this puppy into a megachurch. 

David: Yeah, yeah. 

J.R.: With you behind the pulpit for a couple years, we're gonna blow this thing up, right? 

David: Yeah, yeah. Or maybe there's some ideas that we've had that, you know, we're writing up some ideas for your next missionary tour, you know.

J.R.: Yeah, yeah. No, that's interesting. I think you're right. I think that makes sense. It helps clarify that a little bit. 

David: Yeah, and so, if you think of it in those terms, and there are several places in the letter, I get into this in the book, there's several places in the letter, where Paul, [00:59:00] it almost feels like he's hedging against this idea that, hey, thank you for your support, but look, let's just be clear, let's just get this out of the way. I'm not your client, and you're not my patron. 

J.R.: Right, and maybe he ran into that in some other places. 

David: Yeah, it could be. It could be that other places, someone said, Hey Paul, I really like your style, like what you're doing. I'm fully willing to support this next leg of the journey, but I want you to take my kid along, and I've written some notes out about how you can tweak this idea of the gospel, you know. <Yeah, yeah, yeah.> And Paul's like, nah, you know, no. I don't need your money. Yeah. I'm not for sale. You're not going to be the patron. I don't need that kind of support. That's not what I'm looking for. 

J.R.: Yeah. Okay. That's cool. No, I like that. Yeah. You know, kind of the no strings attached what was you giving and receiving, right? <Yeah. Yeah.> I appreciate your support, but you're right. This is no strings attached, you know? [01:00:00] And it sort of takes us to, when you talk about idolatry versus worship of God. You know, worship is sending worship up to God. But idolatry always had this implied, I'm going to give this sacrifice to this idol with the expectations that my crops are going to grow or my family's going to grow or whatever it's behind that, right? <Yeah. Yeah.> And so idol worship , was always kind of tied to this closer tied to the idea of patronage than it is true worship, right? <Yeah.> That there's expectations behind it. That's interesting. 

David: Yeah, and I think you actually see that in verse 18, then, as we finish this section up. Because he said "What I desire more is that it be credited to your account." Okay, what does that mean? Well, in verse 18, he says, "I've received full payment and I have more than enough." There again, it's like, okay, Paul, we get what you're saying, right? <Right.> But he said, "I am amply supplied, now that I've received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent." But then look how he describes these gifts. "They are a [01:01:00] fragrant offering, an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing to God." I think it's interesting that he frames their gifts to him as a sacrifice to God.

J.R.: Right, yes, that's what I was getting at. 

David: Yeah, okay, now, so there's a couple contrasts there. Number one is, he frames their gift as a sacrifice, but he frames it in this Christian view because to your point , when you made sacrifice to idols, there was some kind of expectation of, Hey, I want something out of the god, right? As you just said. 

J.R.: Yeah. I'm looking to capture something of the god to use for my own benefit. 

David: Right. And one of the things, the big difference between the sacrifices you see in the Old Testament and even in the New Testament and the Pagan culture is when you sacrifice to God in the Old Testament, and Paul talks about sacrifices here in the New Testament, there wasn't this expectation that I'm getting [01:02:00] something from God, right? Sacrifice was not - it's almost how they redefined sacrifice to the pagan world. Hey, we sacrifice, but we don't do it in order to obtain favors from the gods. 

J.R.: Right. That's right. Yeah, because God offers to us is the ability to endure the hardships and the difficulties that we have.

David: Yeah, yeah. 

J.R.: To go back to that idea of enduring, as opposed to, I can do anything through Christ, I can achieve anything. No, no, no, I can endure anything through Christ. And so, yeah, they are there. He's kind of rewriting this idea of typical pagan worship. I'm going to sacrifice to the gods to get something back. But he's saying, no, no, no, this is just a genuine sacrifice. What you're giving to me, this is a genuine sacrifice, with nothing expected in return, and it's an acceptable and a fragrant offering to God.

David: Right. No strings attached. 

J.R.: It's how he's kind of, yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that. That's interesting. 

David: Which I think [01:03:00] really wraps up this clarification of, hey, this is not a patron client relationship. When you are giving to me, I don't need your gifts, but really what you're doing is you're offering a sacrifice to God. And being a sacrifice to God, then, look, no strings attached, right? You are offering it up to God, as maybe gratitude, right? Or worship. I guess worship is probably a better way to talk about sacrifice in the New Testament. It's a form of worship. We don't do it to manipulate God. That's what the pagans do. 

J.R.: Yeah, yeah. And you're right, it's just they'd see it differently back then. But you know, I wonder if they read this letter and thought, well, I guess he's not going to come be our pastor. Is that the point that you're getting, you know, should we ask him? No, nevermind. Just don't even bother asking. yeah, nevermind.

David: I'm going to drop that. 

J.R.: Yeah, just burn that, burn that letter that I had going back to him.

David: Well, so, but it there are a lot of ideas. You know, what is a sacrifice? What is a [01:04:00]gift? And all those things meant something in the ancient world that Paul had to untangle that to make perfectly clear - you know, I don't think what Paul was saying was, hey, I don't want to see another dime from you. That's not what I think he's saying. <Right.> I think he's saying, , look, just make sure you understand why you're giving. This isn't like, , the pagan temples in Philippi where you're trying to obtain something from the gods. This isn't a patron relationship. Look, you're offering it to God. I'm happy to accept it. But at the other hand, you know, if you don't give anything, then I'll be fine. I've learned to be content. And for Paul, I think it just kind of defined the relationship. And from here on out, they could move forward. 

J.R.: Right. What were the four categories again? Hospitality. 

David: Hospitality. Sending someone on their way. <Right.> Giving and receiving and patronage. 

J.R.: Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's interesting because you're right. We don't really clarify any of those things. [01:05:00] It's either a gift or it's kind of one extreme or another. I'm either giving you a gift with no strings attached or I'm giving you a gift kind of like we were talking about in politics that yeah, I'll support your run for Congress with the understanding that you're gonna scratch my back when it comes time. <Yeah. Yeah.> But we don't really have that in between nuance, you know that Witherington laid out, right? We didn't really don't really have that.

David: Right. Can you imagine anyone today, you know, a non profit, missions group, can you imagine them today sending out a support letter at the end of the year saying, Hey, thank you for your gift, but I didn't need it. 

J.R.: Not that I needed it. Hey, that'd be refreshing. 

David: It would, wouldn't it?

J.R.: It might be refreshing. Not that I needed it. 

David: It would. But yeah, Paul would have flunked Modern Fundraising 101, you know.

J.R.: I was about to say, yeah, I don't think it would be very beneficial financially for him, but, you know. 

David: It's usually the opposite. It's usually some letter that says, think of all the things that we can accomplish if you will just give more.[01:06:00]

J.R.: If you just doubled it. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. 

David: You double your gift. We've got a big donor over here and ...

J.R.: Well, this is no, this is an interesting way of looking at it in the context of supporting missions. And I'm not saying we're doing it wrong. 

David: No. That's not meant to be a criticism either. 

J.R.: Right. Right. But it is interesting to see that there is kind of a biblical outline of, at least what Paul expected from this. You know, he appreciated the gifts. He can maybe go more places. Maybe he can go further, than he had initially had planned on with people's gifts. But that yeah, that, it's not patronage. Don't expect anything in return. I'm just going to be able to go further out because of this.

David: And I think behind that is this is something that probably can be lost sometimes. I think behind that is this idea that Paul really did believe that, if God wants me to continue doing what I'm doing, then God will provide. 

J.R.: Right, whether it be through this church, or whether it [01:07:00] be another way.

David: Right, which we say that sometimes today, but really, then we're going out and trying to acquire the ways that we're going to accomplish what we want to accomplish, I guess. Which, I do like that kind of Stoic idea that Paul draws upon, to balance out, here's what I want to accomplish, right? It's, nope, if this is as big as it gets, then I'm happy. I'm gonna make the most of it. And, I don't know, it's just interesting. I think when you really dive into even a little section like that, it has a lot of implications for what I want out of life. Everything we talked about. 

J.R.: So yeah, it's, it's like something that I read a long time ago that basically there's two ways to have enough, that you can either get more things to satisfy yourself or on the other side of the equation, you can desire less. And so, you know, it's just a different way of looking at it that we can have enough both of those ways. So we can fight to get more or we can just change our desires. And that's [01:08:00] what Paul is saying is that whatever state I'm in to be content, meaning that I just basically desire less and I'm just as happy as the person who can't get enough. Well, happier than the person who can't get enough.

David: Yeah, right. You can have very little and be very happy because you're content with what you have. That's the whole idea. 

J.R.: Yeah, so it goes back to that whole self denial thing that I brought up earlier. Where do you think that falls in this context? Are monks on to something? 

David: Well, yeah, so some people can take that to an extreme, but yeah, I think part of monasticism is to be very content with as little as possible. And that's, to a monastic,

that's a spiritual discipline, right? <Yeah.> And we can learn a lot from that. Yeah, and I ...

J.R.: They're on, they're working on the desire less part of that equation.

David: Yeah, and I even find in myself, you know, there's things I want to accomplish in life. Look, let's not deny that, right? <Sure.> [01:09:00] But I think and I read something like this it challenges me to say, okay, am I becoming discontent because I'm not getting some of these things that I'm working for, that I'm working toward? Do I find myself thinking, I wish I had more? And so, you know, I think there's that tension, there's that word we like again, there's that tension between saying, there are things that I want to do, there's gifts that I want to exercise, and at the same time, I want to be happy with what I have. I want to be content with it. 

J.R.: Yeah. Well, I think it's pretty safe to say that 21st-century Americans focus more on the get more things. The problem with being a modern American with social media and Instagram is it's so easy to point to somebody else. The flashy bling guy, you know, it's so easy to point to somebody else and say, yeah, I'm not that guy. I'm not trying to drive a Ferrari. I'm not trying to get [01:10:00] my third and fourth car and vacation homes. It's easy to point to the excess that we see on social media and then to pat ourselves on the back and say, I'm not that way. But the reality is, is man, as 21st century Americans, man, we kind of all tend to, we tend to lean more on the get more things part of the equation, even if by comparison, we seem to have it, you know, a little bit more in check. But you're right, I think, that's what we can kind of get out of this entire passage is let's work on the desire less part of the equation. Work on that part. Because you're right, that's completely overlooked in, our modern culture. 

David: Yeah. Yeah. Good way to wrap this up. 

J.R.: All right. I liked it. That was good. 

David: All right. So that's Philippians. Yep. 

J.R.: Yep. There you go. So next week, what do we have? 

David: So next episode, we are going to start a little two part series that I'm excited about. We're going to talk about the question, What is truth? <Oh, yeah.> So we're going to, do that one. Hopefully, [01:11:00] you're gonna be here next week and hopefully we might be able to knock that out.

J.R.: Hopefully we'll do that in person. Yeah, I'll be good. Yeah, that's gonna be a couple of cool episodes. I think you're gonna be a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to that. So that'll be good. 

David: Yeah, so we'll get into that next episode. So that wraps up Philippians. Like I said, last minute plugs. Buy the book. If you buy it and you like it any kind of rating helps. I'm gonna say the same thing about the podcast as well. Any kind of ratings, reviews, likes. Share it with your friends though. That's the main thing. If you like it, share it with people who would enjoy it as well. If anything sparks a question, we'd love to hear from you, too, through Facebook, that fan list page. You can go to our website, too, there's a contact form. And we would love to answer questions. So, I think that covers everything. 

J.R.: Yep. And I'm headed to St. Pete next week. So I expect your hospitality. 

David: All right. I've set the bar high now on hospitality, didn't I? 

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. So dinner's on you. Actually, it was your birthday yesterday. So dinner will be on me. At least one good dinner will be on me. <Oh, okay. Okay.> the rest, [01:12:00] I'm expecting your hospitality. 

David: That'll be nice. Yeah. Not, hey, not that I, not that I need your gift though, but. Yeah, in true Pauline fashion. 

J.R.: Not that I'm, yeah, I'm not trying to be a patron here. That's all right. 

David: Okay. All right. Just as long as that's understood. No, I'm looking forward to next week.

J.R.: Alright, we'll see y'all. 

David: And we will talk to you next episode.