Mythic Stories of the Judges: Samson

Join us on a mythic odyssey through the book of Judges! 📖 In this episode, we dive into the biblical narrative of Samson, drawing intriguing parallels between his mythological traits and those of Hercules and other ancient heroes. 🏋️‍♂️ Explore themes of strength, vulnerability, and the profound significance of Samson's Nazirite vow. 🔍 Unravel the rich symbolism in his encounters, culminating in his tragic yet redemptive demise. 🌟 Join us at Navigating An Ancient Faith for a captivating discussion on one of the Bible's most enigmatic figures. ✨

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Chapters

• 0:00 The Twelve Labors of Hercules
• 8:52 Samson's Story in Judges
• 16:57 Samson's Nazirite Vow
• 32:38 The Riddle of the Lion and Honey
• 50:04 The Foxes and the Fields
• 1:05:00 The Delilah Story Begins
• 1:16:45 Samson's Downfall and Redemption
• 1:28:57 Samson as the Anti-Hero

Transcript

Samson

David: [00:00:00] John the Baptist did not slay a thousand Pharisees. 

J.R.: It would have been cool, but no. 

David: Or maybe they left that part out of the Bible. 

J.R.: Yeah, that's a follow up. 

David: Hello. Welcome to the Navigating an Ancient Faith podcast. J.R., let's jump right into this. <Yeah.> So about a year, probably a year ago, I would say, you sent me an article. Was it a year ago?

J.R.: Yeah, that'd be about right. 

David: Yeah, something like that. You sent me an article and said, hey, I found this article. What do you think of this, right? 

J.R.: Right, Yeah, the connection between Samson and Hercules, right? I wish I could give credit to the proper article, and it's not the only one out there. There's several of them. 

David: There's several of them. Yeah. But it was from like the early 1900s. This was an old article, right? 

J.R.: Right. Yes. This is nothing new. Yeah, it was kind of tying these connections between Samson and Hercules. And I don't know, it was just interesting because there were several good points throughout it. And it plays into our mythical [00:01:00] understanding, or trying to look at some of the Old Testament stories through a mythical lens, because that draws the meaning to the top, right? 

David: Right, right. And yet at the same time in that article and some of the other things we've, I think I shared this earlier, but I watched this YouTube video on how to understand Judges and it can also just devolve into the, well, they were just borrowing something from this other culture. <Yeah.> Which always drives me crazy because you think, okay, so the ancient Israelites were the most uncreative people in the world, right? Because all they did, you know, hey, we need a story. Well, I don't know. Hey, I read this good book the other day. Let's just borrow that.

J.R.: I hear the Romans are coming up with a strong man story. Let's come up with our own. Isn't that like a Hollywood thing that the, the two Wyatt Earp movies come out in the same year. And I mean, this happens. 

David: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's nothing original in Hollywood anymore. 

J.R.: And one production company gets wind of a cool idea. And so they [00:02:00] rushed to market and say, we need to do the same thing, right? 

David: Yeah, that's true. Hollywood's done that before. There's been some, I remember that now. There's been some Wyatt Earp movies and 

J.R.: Oh, it's happened. I wish I could think of some examples because I know there's dozens of them. 

David: Yeah, where one, studio catches wind that they're gonna release this movie on this theme and they rush to try and get something out at the same time or even right before.

J.R.: Yeah, yeah. A Bug's Life and Ants. <Yeah.> That came out the same. 

David: Yeah, so it's like the ancient Israelites are like, man, we don't have any good stories. Let's just take some of these Greek myths. Let's talk about some of the things Roman or, you know, Persia is doing right now. Let's just make those ours. <Market as fast as possible.> You know, we're the most uncreative people in the world, right? We just, right. We have no story, right? Yeah. That's just ...

J.R.: You and I have both been saying that doesn't seem to add up. 

David: No, it doesn't. When you really actually think about it, it's things that academics love to delve into and the evolution of this and where they borrowed but practically speaking, it doesn't really make any sense that people are just such blank slates that [00:03:00] all they know how to do is borrow stories from other cultures, right?

J.R.: Right, 

David: And so that's the other side of this whole topic of, you know, mythology that you see in the Bible that kind of irritates me, you know. So the whole thing that we've been trying to do in this series is live in that tension, right? Some of these themes are unmistakable <Right> that you see and yet at the same time at least we would reject this idea that oh, well see clearly they're just borrowing the Hercules story. They needed a hero of their own. So they named the guy Samson, but you know pretty much he did what Hercules did.

J.R.: But there is an uncanny connection between the two. 

David: Right, there are some interesting things. So, I found this article on what were the twelve labors of Hercules, because that's what Hercules is really known for. There's a lot of stories about Hercules, but Hercules is known for these twelve labors. so I pulled up this article just to remind myself the first one is he slays the Nemean lion. Now that's going to play into what we're going to talk about today. 

J.R.: Sure. Yeah. Slay another lion. Yeah. So there you go. So one for one. I like that connection. 

David: [00:04:00] And by the way, we might go to Nemea this fall. 

J.R.: Oh, is that right? Is that on our list? 

David: It is. Yeah. Yeah. 

J.R.: No, we'll definitely have to.

David: It's in the Peloponnese. 

J.R.: Let's go look for this Nemean lion.

David: I don't know if there are lions. I think Hercules killed them all.

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. 

David: But yeah, so we might go there. 

J.R.: Yeah, let's do it, man. 

David: But it's funny because the connections pretty much stop there besides maybe that there might have been 12. Because the second thing he does is he slays the hydra. I didn't see any hydras in the story of Samson. Although you might maybe consider Delilah maybe? 

J.R.: Yeah, there you go. 

David: Little dig there, you know. 

J.R.: Yep, The multiplicity of Delilah. 

David: Right, Yeah. We could run with that symbolism then. Yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah, we're reaching but okay, so that that holds so.

David: Yeah, he captures the golden deer. So that probably has nothing to do with it. He captures the, what is it, the Eurimanthian boar? A huge boar that was devastating the countryside, and he captures that. One of my favorites, I don't know if you remember all these, he [00:05:00] cleans the stables of King Agius, or Agius. I'm Do you remember this story? 

J.R.: No, that doesn't sound like a huge feat. Unless it's a big stable. 

David: Yeah, so this is the problem that Hercules runs into. He goes to this king and the king says you have to clean my stables as one of these labors, right? And he goes, yeah, no problem. Well, it turns out he has a thousand cattle. And that's a lot of clean up. 

J.R.: A lot of cow crap, yeah. 

David: Yeah, it's never been cleaned. You can imagine just the huge, huge, huge piles. But, here's the solution that Hercules came up with. He diverted a river, and the whole thing washed through the stables, and like in a day, he's like, Okay, done. What's next?

J.R.: Oh, yeah. That was pretty cool. No, that's thinking outside the box. 

David: Yeah, it is. He diverted a river and said, there you go. Stables are clean, right? 

J.R.: Yeah. I wish I could do that with my garage. 

David: Something. You got a river at the end of your street. Don't you? 

J.R.: Yeah, we do. I don't know if I can divert it, but yeah, I would just like to get in there with a, with a fire hydrant, a [00:06:00] fire hose and just blast it out.

David: That's right. 

J.R.: Take care of all the dust and everything. Yeah. 

David: So then he defeats the Stemphalian birds. This is a huge flock of birds. He captures the Cretan bull. And again, we might go to Crete. 

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. That's on the list too. <Yeah.> Yeah, we'll just do a whole Hercules tour.

David: We could do a Hercules tour. Might end up doing that. He brings back the mare of Diomedes. And this is a horse that eats human flesh. So that's, again, that's no easy task, but he does it. Yeah, okay. He obtains the belt of Hippolyta. Which Hippolyta is kind of an Amazon warrior queen. He obtains the cattle's of Garion. He brings the golden apple to Hesperides. And then he captures the Cerberus. And the Cerberus is not to be messed with. It's a three headed dog from hell. Okay? 

J.R.: Okay. 

David: So it's not just put the collar around the stray dog. 

J.R.: Well, I heard about a connection. Now, I didn't know it was three headed.

David: Yeah, the Cerberus is three headed. 

J.R.: Yeah, I had read that, you know, when [00:07:00] Samson ties the fox's tails together I think one of the possible translations is that they were actually jackals. And so now you have this two headed jackal, which is a multi headed canine. But again, you're kind of you're It feels like you're reaching just a little bit.

David: Some of that. Yeah, some of that's a little bit of a reach. Yeah 

J.R.: Yeah, you're desperately trying to kind of tie the two together.

David: Yeah, so if you consider the fox might be a jackal then maybe he tied the cerberus together, right the multi headed thing. Well, yeah, that's kind of a stretch, but. 

J.R.: Yeah, and didn't they both tear down the gates of a city?

David: Yeah, in other stories. That wasn't one of the labors, but yeah, in other stories, he tears down the gate of a city. Of course, he's quite the womanizer, and Samson's gonna be quite the womanizer, so there's a lot of these other things. I think one of the things that we had run across was this idea that someone tried to set the Samson story up as twelve labors as well, and they tried to pick out twelve things that Samson had to do in the story.

J.R.: Yeah, I saw a list of that, and they're kind [00:08:00] of, again, all you're kind of doing is desperately looking for 12 bullet points. And they, they, kind of roughly do it, but it's not that convincing to it. And you could see that if you have a mythical story of a strong man, you're going to have a lot of the same themes, 

David: Right. There.

J.R.: A strong man is going to be a ladies man. There's going to be stories of him, obviously battling hundreds, if not thousands of people at a time. 

David: Yeah, killing a lion.

J.R.: Right, feats of strength. 

David: In fact, in 300, I think one of the tests of a Spartan warrior, if I remember, was that they killed a lion, you know? So that's a common trope in mythology. You have to kill a lion. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: Hey, King David killed a lion and a bear, right? So even that's within the Bible, that idea, if you had to kill a lion to kind of show your strength, you're a strong man.

J.R.: Right, <Yeah.> Not with your bare hands. 

David: Right. 

J.R.: That's another level, baby.

David: Ha ha ha. Right. So the point is that there are people who approach the Samson story and say, well, they're just borrowing from Hercules. And just reading through [00:09:00] these twelve labors, I don't know, it's kind of a stretch. But at the same time, you actually do see some common themes. And hopefully we're gonna unpack today why you might see those and what we're supposed to do with them. Because, again, we're trying to live in this tension between saying, Look, they didn't make all this stuff up. They weren't just these uncreative dolts that had to borrow other people's stories. But they are telling the stories mythically. That's part of what the series has been about is what does that mean and how are we to understand these stories, right?

J.R.: Right. And it goes back to the original article that this kind of what started all this. The article was interesting. It was not really convincing, but it did convince us because the Samson story is so strange. You know, the details of it are so strange. It kind of got us to broadly look at Judges and it's like, man, there's really bizarre details all through the book of Judges.

And so it got us reading the entire book of Judges mythically. And I think it untangled a lot of things. I hopefully it's made sense up until now, [00:10:00] but Samson's kind of the one who started it for us. 

David: Yeah, that's true. It all started with Samson. And if we could understand the story of Samson, then maybe there's other stuff in Judges that we could understand as well. Yeah, and I got to tell you, we're closing in on the end of our series here, but Judges makes a lot more sense to me today than it did, you know, several weeks ago. 

J.R.: Oh, goodness. Yeah, no, it really kind of ties together pretty clearly for me. Now, there's a few details maybe that are kind of hard to untangle.

When I first read it, I was like, man, what in the world does this mean? What are the, you know, what is the deal with the 30 white donkeys? And I think we've kind of, I think we've done a good job at untangling a lot of that stuff and kind of laying out the broader narrative of what it's trying to communicate.

David: Yeah. Yeah. When you look at it, mythically, some of these things make sense and it makes sense why they would write the stories they are writing. And yet we're not giving away that they're just making these stories up, right? <Right, exactly.> Yeah, So, let's talk about the Sunday school story of Samson. That's kind of what we've been doing [00:11:00] here is, here's the story we all know. And I think you and I both had this <Sure.> going back to middle school. Yeah, but both had the same experience where, when we actually started reading the story of Samson, it's four chapters long, and there's a lot more there. 

J.R.: Yeah, there's a lot of details in there and, I was kind of conflating a lot of the stories, know. They're really kind of separate stories dealing with Samson, but I was kind of, you know, squishing them all together. And, , you don't realize that Delilah's not till the very end and you just kind of assume she's a character throughout the whole Samson story and that's not really the case.

David: Yeah, because most people when they pick up the story of Samson, they really start with Samson and Delilah, right? And we kind of meet our hero, he has long flowing hair, and he's a ladies man, right? And his woman is Delilah, and she happens to be a Philistine. 

And so, most people kind of go through the process of the Philistines didn't like Samson, and they went through Delilah to try and figure out the source of his strength. And in the Sunday school, you know, all the kids know that it, well, it's because of his long hair, that's [00:12:00] what makes him strong, And so, Delilah goes through these series of , badgering Samson, tell me why you're so strong, right? What's the secret? And then when he throws her off the trail, she comes back and sobs and says, you don't really love me. You know, all these things. And finally Samson gives in and says, okay, here's why I'm so strong.

J.R.: Well, even as a kid, I remember thinking, surely Samson sees what Delilah is doing here. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: It's just not hard to figure out what's happening that every time you know, he throws her off the trail, he wakes up and his head is tied to a weaver's loom or whatever it was. He told, you know, you're like, dude, can you not figure out what's happening? 

David: Is that not a clue that this is not a healthy relationship you're in right now? You know? 

J.R.: Right. That's right. And looking back, you know, that's common in myths. Kind of an absurd scenario, but yeah, yeah, the third time he finally gives up and finally says, yeah, you have to shave my head. And then of course the Philistines come in I think Delilah herself shaves his head. 

David: [00:13:00] She shaves his head while he's asleep or something like that. The Philistines rush in and jump on him. And of course he wakes up and thinks, I'm just going to toss these people aside. And he's got nothing. 

J.R.: Yep. No juice left. 

David: Yep. And so they enslave him. They put his eyes out and , when all things look hopeless, they bring him out to a huge party at one of their temples and chain him up between two pillars. And Samson says to God, just give me this one last dose of strength. Let me make things right, right? 

J.R.: Right. Well, his hair grew back when he was grinding the wheat or whatever. 

David: Yeah, there's all these little details that we're going to get into. 

J.R.: Yeah Well, I just remember I remember that that you know. When they gouge his eyes out and they put him to slave labor essentially and over time his hair grew back. Which is another one that I look back at as a kid and think surely there would be one person's job to cut this dude's hair every week.

David: Go shave his [00:14:00] head, like that ... 

J.R.: Do not let this get away from you. You do not understand how this is going to go bad if we don't keep this under control. But yes, they bring him out there and they tie him between the pillars.

David: And yeah. And then in one last, climax of the movie, right? <Right.> he pulls the pillars with superhuman strength. The temple comes crashing down and Samson, of course himself is killed. But it says he killed, I don't know, two or 3,000 people with him and he brought the temple down and that was kind of the end of the Samson story. Which, you know, it's understandable why it's fascinating as a Sunday school story, right? It's a great story. 

J.R.: Sure. Yeah, you'll actually keep a eight year old boys attention through this story. 

David: Yeah, but there's so many little questions when you actually start thinking about that story. Some of it, we're gonna talk about today when we talk about, well, you have to look at this mythically, right? <Right.> And when you look at the whole story it starts to make a lot more sense. But there's still a lot of little [00:15:00] questions through the Samson story here. 

J.R.: Sure, as there is all through Judges. 

David: As there is with all of them, yeah. So we're going to start in Judges chapter 13 because that's where we see and we're starting to see a common theme here that's where we see the origin story of where we encounter our Judge, right? Where do we meet the hero first? And that's pretty telling that we're learning. 

J.R.: Yeah, . That's been an interesting little thing that we've come up with. Every judge has a really interesting origin story sometimes it's just a quick verse. And in Samson's case, it's sort of before he's born.

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: You know, we have this introduction to the idea of Samson before he's born. And it's, it's a neat origin story as well. 

David: Yeah, so you see Deborah under a palm tree. That's how we meet, Deborah. You see Gideon hiding in the threshing floor. 

J.R.: Right, right, hiding away. 

David: You see Jephthah, who's been kicked out of town because his mother's a prostitute.

J.R.: Yeah, he's the outsider warrior. 

David: Yeah, and so all these things, where we meet the judge actually tells us a lot about how the story's gonna go down. 

J.R.: Right, exactly.

David: Alright, so, let's start talking about Judges [00:16:00] chapter 13. Now, this is an entire chapter, then, of how Samson's birth even came about, right?

J.R.: Right. Just the origin story. That's right. 

David: Yeah, just the origin story. So where should we start? 

J.R.: Well, we start in chapter 13 with that famous line, "And the people of Israel again did what was evil in the sight of the Lord." So here we go. Remember, that's our reset. 

Our cycle starts again. So that's probably the best place to start, but then it kind of introduces us to Samson's mother and father.

David: Right. And by the time you get to verse three, it says "An angel of the Lord appeared to his mother and said, 'you are barren and childless, but you're going to become pregnant and give birth to a son.'" And then the angel says, basically, he's going to be dedicated as a Nazarite for his entire life. <Right.> Right? Which means you drink no wine, nothing fermented, you don't eat anything unclean, you keep yourself pure, and no razor is to touch his head. So we're told from the very [00:17:00]beginning that Samson is to be a Nazirite. Right? Now Nazirite vows were supposed to be, most of the time we see them, they're temporary.

I was doing a little research on this when we were going to talk about this. It goes back to Numbers chapter six, where it talks about what a Nazirite vow is. And one interesting thing I read was that John the Baptist was the only other person in the Bible that was under a Nazirite vow his entire life. I thought that was interesting. So, 

J.R.: Yeah, how long, I mean, I guess we don't, they didn't specify how long the vow would last, but it was a temporary thing, right? 

David: It was a temporary thing. The apostle Paul takes a Nazarite vow. There's the verses in Acts 21, I think, where Paul had apparently been under this vow, and so when he gets to Jerusalem, it says he cleanses himself to signify that the vow is over, and I don't think it ever says he was under a Nazirite vow, but all the signs tell you that that's what Paul is engaging in. He took a Nazirite vow for, I don't know, a couple [00:18:00] of months, right? And when he gets to Jerusalem, he says, okay, the vow is over. 

J.R.: Well, one of the things that's interesting about the Samson story is that his mother says that the child shall be a Nazirite from God from the womb to the day of his death. And the interesting thing about that is that's not what the angel ever said right? He never specifies to the day of his death. 

David: Right. It's a little bit foretelling, isn't it? 

J.R.: Yeah, yeah. A little bit of foreshadowing there, but I thought that was kind of interesting. 

David: Yeah, that is. Till the day of his death. Instead of just saying, yeah, for his whole life. <Right.> You go, well, you're going to do this till the day you die. 

J.R.: Yeah, which, if you were watching a movie, you're like, oh, that's not good. 

David: Yeah, that's one of those movie lines where you go, okay, pay attention to that. That's probably not a mistake that she just said.

J.R.: Yeah, Samson's not riding off into the sunset at the end of this one. 

David: Yeah, yeah. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: And then there's this whole interesting thing where the angel - and this is another thing that we talked about - it says the angel of the Lord, shows up to her and tells his mother this. But she doesn't recognize him as an angel. [00:19:00] But then she notices something is really odd about it. And there's this interesting verse if we skip down to, I might be skipping ahead here, she tells her husband and her husband says, invite this guy back, And in verse 21, it says, when the angel of the Lord did not show himself again to Manoah and his wife. Manoah realized that it was the angel of the Lord, and then verse 22 is the interesting one that I want to point out here. He says, "We are doomed to die, he said to his wife. We have seen God."

J.R.: Right. 

David: Right. Now where have we seen that before? That's another pattern we've seen in Judges. 

J.R.: Well, yeah. Okay. So in previous stories in Judges, it talks about the angel of the Lord, but then it just turns into the Lord. Right? 

David: Right. 

J.R.: So there's kind of this wording clarification that it just turns into be God and human flesh, which we would, as New Testament believers, we would say, well, that was Jesus.

David: Right. 

Yeah. We saw this in the story of Gideon. 

Right? Where someone's talking to the angel of the Lord, and suddenly it hits them, and they go, [00:20:00] Oh no, I've been talking to God. And of course, God in flesh is Jesus. 

J.R.: Exactly. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: And it seems like one of those things you would be able to recognize, an angel. I think I would be able to recognize it. I don't know. It's a little bit of - so it's something interesting about them to draw people into the angel, but then they never seem to quite recognize it. So, I don't know, I've never met an angel face to face, so maybe it's more difficult. 

David: Or maybe you have and you don't know.

J.R.: Maybe. Oh, there you go. 

David: Maybe you have. Hey, there's something in the New Testament that's something about entertaining angels. 

J.R.: Entertaining angels unaware. 

David: Right, you don't even know. So, last point on this idea of the angel, it's funny because the husband says, "We're doomed to die. We have seen God." But then in verse 23, it's funny because his wife answered and said, Now honey if the Lord had meant to kill us we would be dead already, right?

J.R.: Yeah, it seems like a very obvious point It's like hey, you know, we've already seen this guy. He said that we're gonna be part of this mission. Our son, our child is going to be set apart, why would he kill us now? [00:21:00] Right? <Yeah. Yeah.> Very level headed. It's just funny, we don't know her name.

David: We don't know.

J.R.: Yeah, it's unfortunate. She's kind of the more level headed. 

David: She's definitely the level headed one, you know? 

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. And this is not the only time that she kind of takes a more level headed approach than his father. 

David: Right, she entertains the angel. She interacts with them. And it's funny because I don't think the husband, rarely actually does. It's only at the end that he does, but the angel primarily works through her. so here's another pattern that we're seeing, then. I don't think you can read this chapter and looking at how the angel comes to this woman and says, You're going to have a son, and he's going to be set apart, right? We're going to talk about that a lot. <Right.> Well, what does that foreshadow? That foreshadows Mary, right? 

J.R.: Right. 

David: And Joseph is involved, but kind of secondarily. But it's really Mary, And so you almost see that same pattern here in Judges, where the angel is coming to her, and the husband he's off, you know, the husband's away, and then he comes back, and she's like, I met this interesting [00:22:00] guy who said I'm going to have a son that's supposed to be a Nazarite. And so they go through all this, and then it's the husband who says, you know, Wait, wait, wait, you just talked to God, we're going to die. And she goes, no, no, I'm pretty sure that we would already be dead if that was going to be the case, right? 

J.R.: Well, there's also a line in this story where, and I can't find it exactly, but basically where Minoah says follows his wife. And I was reading a commentary that says, Yeah, , that is a big red flag to ancient readers, you know, as a husband, you don't follow your wife. And , it's a little subtle to us, but in verse 11, it says, "And Manoah arose and went after his wife and came to the man." And the thing that I was reading was saying, this is an example of the man not stepping up, you know, that normally even if I don't know, even if the wife was showing him where to go, she would walk behind him.

 There's extra biblical books that basically say the wife should always walk behind the husband. And so here's this little tidbit again that kind of says the guy's not stepping up quite in the right way. You know, he's [00:23:00] following his wife. The angels coming to the wife and not the husband. so you're right. It kind of has that echoes of the importance of Mary or the importance of the mother over the father. 

David: Yeah, in a case like this. Yeah, it's the mother. The mother is going to have the burden, right, of this set apart child, basically. <Right, right.> That was obvious with Mary, and you kind of see it here, in these echoes here, of Samson's mother.

And, again, we don't know her name, which is unfortunate, but his father is Manoah. There's one other theme, well, there's two other themes, there's probably a hundred, but we gotta keep this to under two hours. <Oh, yeah, golly.> So, one of the things they do is they offer a sacrifice. I wanted to point this out, because, verse 15, Manoah says to the angel of the Lord, "Would you stay until we prepare a young goat?" And the angel of the Lord replies, Even though you detain me, I will not eat of your food. But if you prepare a burnt offering, offer it to the Lord." So there's another theme, right? It's the proper sacrifice. 

J.R.: Yeah, same thing Gideon did, by the way.

David: [00:24:00] Yeah, yeah, the angel instructed him what the proper sacrifice was. And yes, offer it to the Lord. That would be acceptable, right? 

J.R.: Yeah. So it is, it's a foreshadowing of the proper sacrifice is going to be instrumental in this story. 

David: Yes, that's going to be a huge theme through this story that we're going to bring out.

J.R.: Right. 

David: And there's one more theme, and I think you brought this up, that I want to bring out here, which I don't know that either of us necessarily buy into, but if you start to think about this as a foreshadowing of Mary, Jesus was, right, the Son of God. We've heard suggestions that this idea, and it would definitely be a mythic theme, right? That Samson is half human and half divine. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah. That ties into the Hercules. 

David: That would tie into the Hercules story. Myth. And that would make Samson more of a Greek demigod, right?

J.R.: Right. Right. 

David: Now again, 

J.R.: Yeah, it doesn't spell it out in the biblical [00:25:00] narrative, but I can understand the implications of what they're saying. There's implications that the angel did more than simply bring the news of a miraculous birth. That maybe Samson is, like you said, is half divine, right? 

David: Right, yeah. And that would be typical of a Greek mythological hero. 

J.R.: Right. And, listen, Samson's the only judge that has a superpower, right? He has this supernatural strength. Gideon, Jephthah, none of the other ones had this kind of supernatural ability given to them by God or the gods. You know, however you want to view it. And so there's a supernatural element to this. And so, yeah, if you start with this interesting conversation with an angel and his mother, you can certainly see where, oh, there we go. We got a half god, half man here. <Right.> Right. 

David: Yeah, and, so I guess to wrap up this section, we're not actually saying that that's the case, but it's almost written like a good story that [00:26:00] actually drops a little hint and makes you go, hmm.

<Yeah, yeah.> You know, if nothing more, just to make the reader go. Oh, I wonder what's going on here, right? 

J.R.: Ties into an interesting narrative. 

David: Yeah. Yeah. 

J.R.: And so then we actually get introduced to Samson in verse 24. So basically this whole chapter is about sort of the announcement of Samson and the supernatural ties that he has. And then in verse 24, he's finally born and it says, "The young man grew and the Lord blessed him. And the Spirit of the Lord began to stir him." Right? <Right.> So here's this early kind of spirit on Samson.

David: Right. So we take from this chapter that he's under a Nazirite vow. Again, I'm going to repeat this several times, but Samson has been set apart. That's essentially what the Nazirite vow is. <Right.> He has been set apart for a purpose from his birth. And yeah, verse 25 drops the hint that he starts to get a stirring of what that might be, what that might look like. <Right.> What is he supposed to do with this? 

J.R.: [00:27:00] Right. 

David: So, then we go to Judges chapter 14, and this is where things just, I don't know, turned totally weird, right? Because everything about Samson says he's supposed to be set apart. And Judges chapter 14 verse 1, he says, "He went down to Timnah and saw there a young Philistine woman. And when he returned, he said to his father and mother, 'I've seen a Philistine woman. Now go get her for me as my wife.'" 

J.R.: Yeah, that's apparently how that worked back then. 

David: Yeah, and so his father and mother say, "Isn't there an acceptable woman among your relatives?"

Right? Like, hey, can't you find a nice Jewish girl, right? 

J.R.: Exactly. 

David: But I think from the very beginning, we're supposed to see that Samson is supposed to be set apart, right? And what is the first thing he does here? What's the first big event in his life? 

J.R.: Right. He gets married, but he goes outside. 

David: He goes outside, right? <Right.> This idea of an outsider, he's not keeping himself pure. And again, like, let's not bring our modern notions of that. But back in the ancient times, he is not keeping himself set [00:28:00] apart or pure. He goes outside to obtain a wife. 

J.R.: Right. Right. 

David: Which isn't specifically noted, I think, in a Nazirite vow, but I think it's pretty implied. 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Like you said, it's a temporary vow, and I don't know if it spells it out in Numbers, but <Yeah, it's true.> the implication is that during this temporary vow, we're not going to, well certainly be doing what Samson's doing with prostitutes and things like that later on, later on the story. You know, that goes without saying, but , I read several commentaries that said the implication of a Nazarite vow is that you remain sexually pure.

David: Right. 

J.R.: Now, it was not, it wasn't a vow of chastity for a lifetime vow. But again, it's kind of like you said, well, if he's a Nazirite for life, that's kind of the implication, but it doesn't spell it out clearly.

David: Yeah. Yeah. But the first thing we see Samson do then is marry a Philistine woman.

J.R.: Well, one of the things that's worth pointing out, I think is he doesn't say he talks to his, both his [00:29:00] parents. And then it says he goes to his father specifically. So mom's not in the room, which sort of, again, is another little hint of sort of the weakness of the father. And he says, get her for me for she is right in my eyes. And that's an important line.

David: Yeah, that's true.

J.R.: You know, so it's get her for me because she's right in my eyes. And we'll get into this probably next episode a little bit clearer, but you know how at the beginning we said over and over , it says that the people of israel did what was evil in the sight of the Lord, right? And at the beginning of the Samson story, this is the last time you see that line. Seven times, that people did what was evil in the sight of the Lord. And now for the rest of the story, for the rest of the Book of Judges, the line you're gonna hear is, people did what was right in their own eyes.

David: That's right. 

J.R.: It shifts. Yeah. 

David: That's right. Yeah. And so there's something about that phrase that "Everyone did what was right in their own eyes." <Right.> And that's exactly what we see Samson doing here. 

J.R.: Yeah. And Samson is the final judge. I don't know if we [00:30:00] mentioned that yet, but yeah, Samson is the last judge in the Book of Judges.

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: And he kind of has this line, "Get her for me, for she's right in my eyes." And then we see that the nation of Israel, that's the direction they take. They start doing what's right in their own eyes. And so again, it's this, I think it's overarching in the entire book of Judges, that this is a foreshadowing of the path that the entire nation is going to go down moving forward.

David: Yeah. I'm looking at the next verses and if you haven't read the Samson story, go read it for yourself. Because every verse could merit a 10 minute discussion. 

J.R.: Oh, gosh. Yeah, I know. 

David: So, the very next verse now is very interesting because he says, "His parents did not know that this was from the Lord, who was seeking an occasion to confront the Philistines."

J.R.: Right. 

David: So, this is another tension we're going to talk about through this story. Is this all from the Lord? How this all folds out? Is this all from the Lord or is Samson acting on his own? Because everything you just mentioned, everything [00:31:00] exterior seems to suggest that Samson is on his own, and yet we have these little hints through the story. God is behind the scenes orchestrating it. And we're gonna try to reach some conclusion on that, but I just want to point that verse four out. 

J.R.: Yeah, well, it does. It feels like God hardening Pharaoh's heart. And it's that whole conversation that people have. It's like, well, you know, did Pharaoh make this decision or did God miraculously move Pharaoh to be hard of heart? You know? 

David: Yeah. Or was God just, 

J.R.: Yeah, how much is God's direct intervention and how much is the evil of Pharaoh or the misguidance of Samson or whatever? 

David: Right, does God see Pharaoh's natural bent and he's just going to go with that? <Right.> You know, if you're not going to follow me, well, I'll work with that too, to get done my plans, right? 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's kind of what I feel in the Samson story also. 

David: Yeah. I think we'll get to that point where I think that's what we're seeing here, but it is an interesting verse. Because right in the [00:32:00] middle of this, as soon as you go, man, Samson's screwing this up, it says, "He did not know this, but this was from the Lord."

J.R.: Right, right. Yeah. Okay, so we'll come back to that. 

David: Yes. 

J.R.: Alright, so off to Timnah they go. 

David: Off to Timnah they go, and suddenly - this is one of the first big mythic themes here - suddenly a young lion came roaring toward him, right? "Now the Spirit of the Lord came powerfully upon him, so that he tore the lion apart with his bare hands." Just as he might have torn apart a young goat like - that's an easy thing. I've never torn apart a young goat.

J.R.: Apparently that seems like an easy thing.

David: That was an easy thing. 

J.R.: They relate to but I'm like that's kind of gross to me, too.

David: Yeah back in those days I tore apart a young goat with my bare hands and people like everyone does that.

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah, my middle school kid has done that.

David: Apparently that was meant to say this was something much bigger right; he tore apart a lion. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: And that's gonna play into this story, because we're gonna come back to that. So he goes [00:33:00] down to Timnah after he tears apart this lion, and he goes back and marries this woman, right? <Right.> And verse 8 says, "He turned aside to look at the lion's carcass, and he saw a swarm of bees and some honey in it." So he scoops out the honey with his hands, and he ate it as he went along, and then he rejoins his parents. 

J.R.: Yeah, so the first thing that's strange is that his parents are with him. In verse 5 it says, then Samson went down with his father and mother to Timnah, right? So, <Right.> and then the lion attacked him, but then he didn't tell his parents about it, right? So first thing I'm thinking is, well, I thought they were with him. But apparently, okay, so we'll put that to the side and it's like, okay, well he had gotten ahead of his parents or whatever.

They weren't traveling directly together when this lion attacked him. But then it specifically says that he didn't tell his parents about it. So he kind of had this supernatural ripping apart of the lion. But he kept it from his parents and that'll, [00:34:00] come back to play it a little bit. It's another sub theme kind of through this, but you're right.

David: He's hiding his strength from his parents or he's keeping things from his parents. Yeah. 

J.R.: Yes. Yes. And we mentioned this earlier, the angel's message to the mother. It never says that he's going to be strong. That seems like an obvious thing. You know, when you say, what do you think of when you think of Samson? Yeah, well, it's, it's strength, of course. 

David: Right. He has long hair and it's the source of his strength, right? 

J.R.: Right. And that was never mentioned. It says that he would deliver the Israelites from the Philistines, but it doesn't say that he's going to be the strongest man ever, that he's going to have supernatural strength, right? So this is the first time he's experienced the strength and he keeps it to himself. He doesn't tell his parents, right? And then it says in verse 8, "After some days, he returned back to Timnah to go see his wife." So, who knows, a week, a month, a year, who knows. And he sees the swarm of bees, right?

David: Yeah, it had to have been some time because there was a whole beehive with honey in this carcass. 

J.R.: Right, and this is another strange thing because [00:35:00] everything I read said, yeah, that doesn't happen. Bees don't build hives in decaying animals. And so then again, you're trying to take this rational approach. You hear people say, well, it could have just been a skeleton, you know, maybe there was no decaying flesh on it anymore. <Yeah. Yeah.> But, you know, again you're getting too rational into this. So he does see the beehive. And then I think it's funny that he scraped it out into his hands and went along eating as he went.

So I just pictured this boy with, with, a fistful of melted M&M's you know, walking down the road. And he's got junk all over his hands and he's just eating it out of his hands. So it's kind of this whole boy image again that we're going to see throughout. But yeah, so he's just going along it says that he came to his father and mother and gave some to them and they ate.

And so again, this is a strange tension between Samson and his parents. First of all, it never says that he went to Timnah, never made it to Timnah. Apparently he turned back around and went home when he found this honey. He's [00:36:00] like, Hey, I'm going to go show, you know, mom and dad this. And He's eating it out of his hands. And then he goes to give it to his parents who apparently the implication of the wording here is that he's feeding them out of his hands, right? 

David: Right. 

J.R.: And I think that's an image. I think that's an important image. This idea of the tension between Samson wanting to be a man, but still feeling like a boy. And this kind of joy of feeding his parents out of his hands. It has this kind of sweet innocence to it that kind of warms your heart. But then you obviously see that this is not who he is all the time, right? He kind of goes between the strong man and the boy. And so anyway, we'll play that pattern out a few times during this story too.

David: Yeah. And we don't actually know how old he is at this point either. 

J.R.: Right. Well, you know, he's marriage age, I guess. Right. 

David: Yeah. The ancient times that could have been 13, 14 years old though. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah. 

David: I guess we don't know, but we know, well, we know later on [00:37:00] he ruled Israel for 20 years. But, that's about all we know. So, you know, who knows? Anyway, this image of the lion and the honey though we're gonna get to this next part and then we're gonna come back to it because that's one of those things that you see in a myth that has a lot of meaning. And we could spend a lot of time talking about what the lion and the honey mean. <Right.> But we're gonna get to this here in a second. <Yeah.> 

Because What's the point of that lion and the honey from the carcass? Well, we're told that in the next couple of verses, right? Because his father goes back down to Timnah now to see the woman and Samson held a feast there. So they chose 30 men to be his companions because at this feast I guess he needed companions and there's that number again 30, right? We talked about that last episode I believe. So Samson says to them, "Let me tell you a riddle. If you can give me the answer, within seven days of the feast, I'll give you 30 linen garments and 30 sets of clothes." There's that number again. 30 people, 30 sets of garments, 30 linen clothes, [00:38:00] right? "But if you can't answer me, then you must give me 30 linen garments and 30 sets of clothes." And they said, tell us your riddle. Let's hear it. 

So he says, "Out of the eater, something to eat. Out of the strong, something sweet." Alright, that's the riddle. If you had no context, and I think that's part of why it's important to know that no one else saw Samson kill this lion or scoop the honey out, right? The implication is, there's no way that anyone around him could have known what he was talking about. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah, and so funny because as I read that I'm thinking how are they supposed to know that's not even a riddle. 

David: Yeah, that's Just the most obscure fact, you know, you could think of and say, at a trivia game every now and then, they'll throw this totally stupid obscure fact and you go no one knows that without googling it.

J.R.: Yeah.

David: That's not even ...

J.R.: You know, I've got a riddle for you What did I eat this morning? It's like, well, that's not a riddle. It's like, I have no earthly idea, you know. 

David: Yeah, 

J.R.: yeah. 

David: So, for three days, they could not give the answer. Understandably, [00:39:00] right? What does that even mean? 

J.R.: Yeah, I would like to know what their possible answers were. 

David: Yeah, you'd like to sit down on their discussions. What were some of the ideas they were spitballing there, right? 

J.R.: Yeah, exactly. 

David: So, the fourth day, they go to Samson's wife, his first Philistine wife. And he said, coax your husband into explaining the riddle for us, right? Or, and then it says, or we will burn you and your father's household. No pressure. And this is, this just occurred to me. We've encountered this before, right? No pressure, but if you don't tell us, we're going to burn you and your house. 

J.R.: Right, this is the second time we see this kind of absurd threat to a seemingly minor issue. 

David: Yeah, right. A little thing and all of a sudden it's escalated to, Hey, cooperate with us or we're going to burn your house down.

J.R.: Yeah. I think this is where the term, Hey, let's take this down a notch. This is where that would have aptly applied here. 

David: Right. So Samson's wife throws herself on him because she's been threatened with being burned in her house. <Sure. Sure.> She throws herself on him sobbing [00:40:00] and there's a lot we could do with this, but I'll restrain myself. She says, "You hate me. You don't really love me." Right? You've given the people a riddle, but you haven't told me the answer. <Yeah.> Right? I don't even know you anymore. Right? 

J.R.: Right. Right. 

David: so, they go through this conversation. Why should I explain it to you? And she cries some more. Says she cried the whole seven days. You don't love me, or you would tell me this riddle. So finally, he gives in. And he tells her the riddle. Of course, she turns around and tells the men. And it says before sunset on the seventh day, the men in the town said to him, "What is sweeter than honey? What is stronger than a lion?" And Samson said, drats, if you had not plowed with my heifer, you would not have solved my riddle. Now there's some imagery right there. 

J.R.: I love that. Yeah. It's just hilarious. 

David: Yeah. Yeah. That's not even that veiled of a reference there. But anyway. 

J.R.: Right. Right. A pretty solid double-edged answer there, you know. 

David: Yeah, so they solve the riddle. And then [00:41:00] this chapter ends by saying, "Then the Spirit of the Lord," again, that's important here, "The Spirit of the Lord came on him powerfully." He went down to Ashkelon, He struck down thirty of their men, and he stripped everything, because remember now, he owes them thirty sets of garments. So, he's just gonna go kill thirty people. Take their clothes. I don't know if he cleaned them before, but he gives them the clothes and says, "Here's what I owe you." They're probably blood-soaked, which might be kind of a, it's, it's very gangster thing to do, right? 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of cool. Yeah. It's pretty savage. 

David: Here's the clothes I owe you. Why are they all torn up and bloody? Well, You know, test me and find out. 

J.R.: That's right. Ask again. 

David: Right. So, I mean, that's kind of this really fascinating story. Now, we can't leave this without really talking more about what's going on with the lion and the honey. And, you know, everything we just read, even though we went through it really quickly, right? 

J.R.: Right, right. 

David: Alright, so first of all, we have to know, we already mentioned this, but the killing of a lion is almost a rite of passage for a hero. Right? And so [00:42:00] that signals, okay, we're dealing with a hero here. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: Right? A strong man.

J.R.: It's, it's also, it's also a little bit of a, becoming, like you said, a rite of passage. Becoming a man. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: And one of the things that, even in this first little story, you see this tension between the boy and the man. Even when, Samson's wife is crying to him about, tell me the answer to the riddle, right? One of the things he says to her is, behold, I have not even told my father and mother, why should I tell you? 

David: Yeah.

J.R.: It's, you know, and it's another example of this tension between growing up and being tethered to mom and dad. And, I think that kind of ties all into it. So you have this rite of passage of killing the lion, but yet he's constantly running back to mom and dad, or certainly Certainly it still has that tether back home, right? And you see that tension in there. 

David: Right, which is something you probably shouldn't say to your new wife is, Well, I haven't even told my mom and dad yet. Why should I tell you? 

J.R.: Yeah, the [00:43:00] author is probably doing Samson a favor by not giving her response to that statement.

David: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you have that aspect of it. And this is one, you know, we started talking about the twelve labors of Hercules. There's so many mythological themes in this story, though. Because he kills the lion, and another common theme in mythology is this idea of the riddle, right? And so look, if you think about it, this idea of tying a riddle together with the lion carcass, with the lion. Now, in Greek myth, that's the role of the sphinx, right? The sphinx is the body of a lion and a head of a woman, and the sphinx tells riddles. 

J.R.: Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, sure. 

David: So, in Greek mythology, the riddler is the Sphinx and it is a lion. 

J.R.: So, and the Sphinx was a gatekeeper of something, right? 

David: Yeah. So in Oedipus Rex, Oedipus runs across one of the things that he's told to do is you can't go to that town because the Sphinx is guarding it. And everyone who passes the [00:44:00] Sphinx, the Sphinx asked them a riddle. And if they can't answer it, the Sphinx eats them. All right. So you got to know your stuff if you're going to go that way, right? 

J.R.: That's right. Yeah. You better be a solid trivia buff if you're going to, yeah. 

David: So Oedipus says, I'm going to put an end to this. If you remember this story and if you remember the riddle, you remember the riddle? 

J.R.: Well, I was going to say, is this the one that yeah. <Go ahead.> Four legs. 

David: Yeah. Yeah. Four legs in the morning. You got it. 

J.R.: Okay. I forget exactly. 

David: So what walks on four legs in the morning? 

J.R.: Okay. 

David: Two legs in the afternoon and three legs in the evening. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah. 

David: Or something along those lines.

J.R.: Right. Okay. 

David: And Oedipus figures it out. And he goes back to the Sphinx, and he says, it's humans. It's man, right? Because we crawl on all fours when we're young. We walk upright when we're middle aged, healthy, and then when we're old, we walk on a cane. And it's funny, because as soon as he figures out the riddle, like, the Sphinx dies.

J.R.: Oh, wow. 

David: Yeah, and so that's it. He disperses the Sphinx here. 

J.R.: Okay, so he doesn't just let him pass. [00:45:00]

David: No, the Sphinx dies. 

J.R.: That's the end of it. <Yeah.> Okay. No that's interesting. So I see where you're going with this because the answer is man. The answer to the Sphinx's riddle is man and Yes, So in the same way the answer to Samson's riddle We were talking about this is Samson. It's himself.

David: Yes. Yeah. 

J.R.: It's like what is sweeter than honey and what is stronger than a lion? And it's almost like the setup for the rest of the Samson narrative is that the answer to that is him. He's the one that's stronger than the lion, but he's also got this sweetness of honey. And that goes back to the feeding his parents out of his hands. <Yeah.> It's this sweet story to him. It's this sweeter side to him. And that's also kind of where he waxes poetic. He does this a lot through this several chapters at the end of it, he has this kind of poetic answer of, if you had not plowed with my heifer, you wouldn't have found out my riddle.

Well, he, drops the poetry several times in the story. [00:46:00] It's sort of this I don't know if you'd call that the sweeter side in the sense of, you know, what we say is a sweet person, it's sort of this, the opposite of strong, you know, we think of a strong person as kind of a meat head, gym-bro, that type thing. You know, you don't think of them as scholars. <Right.> And Samson's tension is between his physical strength and his sort of his, what, his wisdom? The wisdom's part of it because that's represented by the poetic responses that he always gives. 

David: Well, maybe going back to the idea of set apart, back to that last verse of chapter 14, I think he does have a vision that he is supposed to carry out something from God. <Right.> And maybe that's what you're seeing, is he's not just this meathead, right? 

J.R.: Right. You see him struggle with that, yes. 

David: Yeah, yeah. He knows that there's a higher purpose in him. 

J.R.: Yeah, yeah. Maybe that's a good way to say that. 

David: Maybe that's the way to say it, yeah. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: Yeah, so I just think this whole thing is fascinating, [00:47:00] because you have that aspect of the lion and the honey. But the other aspect, again, once you see the pattern here, is that he kills the lion, just like you would kill the sphinx, right? The lion itself becomes the riddle. So in killing the lion, he actually solves the riddle, so to speak, right? <Yeah, yeah.> So, it's almost, you see the same pattern. And then I do think that Samson himself, one of the things about killing the lion, the theme is that, you know, lion's the king of jungle, right? Well, if you kill the lion, well, you're the new king. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: Right? And so, Samson almost becomes the lion. And I think the lion being killed and the honey inside, we may circle back around to that at the end, because , I do think that symbolizes Samson himself. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: In killing the lion, he becomes the lion, but I think this is going to foreshadow what's going to happen in the story, which is Samson himself will become the sacrifice.

J.R.: Oh, yeah, [00:48:00] that's good. 

David: Right. 

J.R.: For the honey to emerge, the lion had to die. 

David: Right. Yeah. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: Yeah, the honey came only after the lion was killed. 

J.R.: Yeah, okay. 

David: And that's going to foreshadow, I think, what's going to happen in Samson because, really, the heroic act, the sweet thing that emerges out of Samson, only occurs through his death, let's put it that way.

J.R.: Through his death, yeah, okay.

David: And so we're getting ahead of ourselves, but in this way, killing the lion is almost, the lion becomes a sacrifice. Samson then inherits kind of the persona of the lion, which means that he himself is going to be sacrificed here. <Right. Right.> And there's some inklings to the story that he realizes that.

And so we're going to get to that. 

J.R.: Yes, he realizes he has a mission and he kind of, okay, so there's a Samson cycle: I think Samson starts out with decent intentions and then he is betrayed. And so he goes back to his strength [00:49:00] and uses that to take revenge. And then he has this poetic response. So that's kind of the cycle you'll see. Every one of these stories has that same pattern. And that's why I kind of say that it's obvious that he is both the lion and the honey. 

David: Yeah. Yeah. 

J.R.: In one thing, because , it takes this whole cycle every time. 

David: Yeah. And taking that up one higher level, his whole life is both the lion and the honey.

J.R.: Yeah. 

David: Right? 

J.R.: Yeah. Right. And we mentioned this in previous episodes that there's this escalation of things with Samson. You start off with 30 and then you hit 300 and then you hit 3,000, right? So it's not just the example of the number 30. And we'll get into that, what that specifically means in a bit. But you see this ramping up every time. So this is round one. We've killed 30 people, 30 innocent people, by the way, from another village that we're just unfortunately out and about wandering. <Those poor guys who were just,> yeah, that's right, to get the clothes. And so yeah, so this is round [00:50:00] one. But you're going to see this escalation, but you're still going to see that same cycle. And so, okay, so Judges chapter 15, we're into round two. Let's jump to it. 

David: Yep. So judges chapter 15. So as a fallout from this whole thing with the riddle, apparently they're having marital problems. Understandably, right? <Sure.> So, chapter 15 really kind of jumps into this whole idea that it says he goes to visit his wife, which means he's not really living there. 

J.R.: Problem number one. 

David: Right. And he runs into his father in law, and he says, I'm going to visit my wife. And his father in law would not let him go in. And his father in law says, I was so sure you hated her that I gave her to your companion. Right? <Right.> This is one of those funny verses again. You know, I thought you hated her, didn't think you were coming back, so I gave her to your buddy.

J.R.: Yeah, y'all got in a fight, man. What else was I? I did the next obvious thing, I gave your wife away to your friend. 

David: All is not lost. Samson. He says his father in law says, Hey, isn't her younger sister more pretty anyway? 

J.R.: [00:51:00] Yeah, I saw you eyeing her. The whole family knows that she's the better looking of the two. So this is a win for you. 

David: Yeah. Hey, I'm doing you a favor. Trust me on this one, right? 

J.R.: Right. Okay. So there's, but there's the betrayal. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: So here's our betrayal again. So now what are we going to do? 

David: So yeah, this is where we get to the escalation, right? So the next verse, then Samson says, "This time I have a right to get even with the Philistines." Right? So there's the escalation. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: I've been betrayed and someone's going to pay, right?

J.R.: Right. Right. 

David: And then this leads into the story. And probably you heard it in Sunday school or church, something like that. This is where he catches 300 foxes and ties their tails together and fastens a torch to them and then lets them loose in a grain field of the Philistines. And of course, the foxes run through, they're getting burned up, but they're carrying this torch. The torch is torching all the grain around them. It was probably around harvest time. And he burns down this entire field. <Right.> And vineyards, olive groves, [00:52:00] all of it, it's all gone. 

J.R.: Right. That's right. 

David: So there's a lot there too with this whole idea of the pairs of foxes, the 300 foxes. <Right.> So there's the escalation of the 30 to 300. 

J.R.: Right. But again, if you're reading this as a literalist, this is easy to get hung up. 

David: Yes, exactly. 

J.R.: Right? You know, you're sitting there thinking as a rational exercise of catching 300 foxes. Now, I don't know what it means to catch one fox, but 300 of them. Did he do this in a night? Did he do this over time? And then what's the significance of tying them tail to tail? Like, why not just tie a, torch to every fox's tail. That seems like it would do double the damage, right? Watch them go everywhere, right? And so I don't even know what that looks like to time tail to tail and what the significance of it is.

But again, if you're looking as a rational reader, then you're going to miss the symbology here because there's a lot of it. 

David: Right. yeah, that's a good point. If you get caught up on trying to figure out exactly why this literally happened, you know, how this [00:53:00] is possible. And look, I've read some stuff about this. Well, if you did this and this and this, then this would actually be possible. Yeah, you're right. You're missing the point of what this story is telling you. 

J.R.: Yeah, exactly. But it's another image, another clear vision of Samson himself, right? This is another clear vision of the lion and the honey. You have two foxes trying to escape the fire while dragging their opposite along with them, right? That's another clear vision of Samson, this internal division. He's set apart, but yet he wants to do his own thing. You know, he sees something, he takes it, he gets it, right? 

David: Right. 

J.R.: But at the same time, he's supposed to be set apart. So it's kind of this internal division in Samson that we see throughout his narrative that I think these foxes represent, and the fire in between them. It's just the lion, the honey. It's just another example of it. 

David: Yeah, I didn't really think about this, but I do think your point that this is an escalation, because this was about 30 garments, and now it's about 300 foxes. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: Samson just ramped things up here. 

J.R.: Exactly. Oh, and also [00:54:00] it doesn't say this specifically, but the assumption is also that the foxes die in this process.

David: Oh yeah. Yeah.

J.R.: So there you go. Just like the lion, the lion dies for the honey to come. And for this revenge to happen, the foxes die. So it's another foreshadowing of this whole idea. Let me die with the Philistines. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: But anyway, the point is, is that Samson is constantly wrestling with this inner fire, right? This battle between opposing forces, he feels torn between his desire for this simple disciplined life and his intense cravings that we already have seen, you know, he's physically strong, but he's spiritually immature.

David: Yeah.

J.R.: He's kind of plagued by moments of brutal violence. And then that's contrasted with this poetic nature that we mentioned earlier, right? This Idea of I want to be a man, but I'm still that boy inside is calling out. And so you just see this battle inside Samson that I think these foxes so clearly represent.

David: Okay. 

J.R.: Kind of in a brilliant way. 

David: Yeah, yeah. [00:55:00] Things definitely escalate because the next part of the story is the Philistines come to retaliate. And at this time the Philistines, we forgot to mention that we've talked about the Midianites, we've talked about the Canaanites. Well, the Philistines are the what, the outside opposing force in this story.

J.R.: Right, that's right. Yeah, the outsider.

David: And they definitely have the power because Samson does this to the Philistines and the people of Judah actually say to him. Why have you done this? 

J.R.: Right.

David: Right?

J.R.: Yeah, this is actually the first time we have a clear understanding of the Philistines role as being the oppressor, like all the other oppressors in the previous judges.

David: Yeah. And in fact, in verse 11, they say to him, "Don't you realize the Philistines are rulers over us?" <Right.> What have you done to us? Right? 

J.R.: Yep. Exactly.. So, the men of Judah, which is a fellow tribe, right? This is ... 

David: Yeah, that's, Judah is squarely Israel, right? 

J.R.: Right, right. But a fellow tribe comes to him and says like, what are you doing? You're going to bring the Philistines down onto us. And here's kind of [00:56:00] this, a little bit of a sweet moment again. It took 3,000 men from Judah. There's that number three again. They come down to Samson and they say, listen, we're going to have to turn you in. And Samson says to them, "Swear to me that you won't attack me yourselves." Right? So here's this tension again, of he's wanting to be connected with his people. Tell me that you're not going to attack me. Tell me that you're not going to betray me just like these Philistines keep doing.

<Yeah.> Right? And they basically say, no, we're only going to bind you and , give you over to Philistines, right? You know, we're not going to kill you. We're not going to be the ones. And so again, here's this image of being accepted by his own people, but again, having to be turned over to the outsiders because he torched all their crops.

David: But it's interesting that it does say 3,000 men from Judah. So this is a further escalation now, right? 

J.R.: Oh yeah. 

David: Yeah. So we've gone to 30 to 300 to 3,000. 

J.R.: Right. That's right. Yeah. So it says that they bound him up with new ropes and they brought him up from the rock of Edom and they [00:57:00] essentially handed him over to the Philistines who are cheering and yelling and you know that they've got their guy right.

And then it says the Spirit of the Lord rushed in upon him again. Here we go again. And the ropes on his arms became like flax that has caught fire and it just melted off of his hands. He grabs the jawbone of a donkey, puts his hand on it and with that he killed a thousand men just like that. Yeah, yeah.

David: And we talked about the escalation part, but we neglected to say that in response to the whole setting the fields on fire, they actually do torch his wife's house.

J.R.: Right. 

David: And she's killed. Yeah. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah, yeah, they set her and her father on fire.

David: Right, they burned the house down with them in it. So this is definitely escalating right? <Oh, yes.> This is getting out of hand, right? 

J.R.: Yeah, absolutely. 

David: And so, one thing I read in one of the commentaries was this idea of a fresh jawbone. 

J.R.: Yeah, what's the significance of the, well It does say, it specifically says fresh jawbone. 

David: Yeah, [00:58:00] so it calls out this idea of fresh jawbone. One of the things I read said that we have to keep coming back to this idea that he's under a Nazirite vow. And one of the things about that Nazirite vow, you're not to touch dead bodies.

J.R.: Right, right. 

David: And so the fact that this was a fresh jawbone means, well, he's already killed a lion. But this is maybe another little clue that he went up to this fresh carcass and took the jawbone out of it. Which means once again, he is failing to keep himself set apart. 

J.R.: Right. His revenge comes at the expense of his vow.

David: Yeah. , you see that pattern all through the Samson story too. 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly right. 

David: It's like, when is he actually supposed to keep this vow and be set apart? Because he doesn't do it anywhere through this story. 

J.R.: Other than the hair. That seems to be the easy part. And he kind of takes a lot of pride in this, but yeah, as we'll see later. But yeah, other than the hair, he really doesn't keep this vow at all, does he? 

David: No, he doesn't. All right. Did you, did you figure anything out about the [00:59:00] jawbone?? 

J.R.: No, not particularly. what were you going to say?

David: I don't know. I just think there's something there. Like he kills a thousand people with a jawbone. 

J.R.: Yeah. There does seem like there should be something significant with it. Well, I mean, it goes on to verse 16. Here's the poetic side of him again. You know, with the jawbone of a donkey, heaps upon heaps, the jawbone of a donkey. I've struck down a thousand men. So I'm assuming that in the original language, that probably rhymed or sounded a little bit more poetic. 

David: Okay. So this is interesting 'cause in the NIV it says with the donkeys jawbone, I have made donkeys of them. So there's something with that phrase, probably in the original, that there's a couple things in here now that we're talking about it. So there's this idea of, with a donkey's jawbone, I've made donkeys of them, right? So that's kind of poetic there. But then, yeah, another way to translate it is, I've made heaps upon heaps, or something like that.

J.R.: Right, right. 

David: Which something that jogs my memory, because something I read basically said, we picture him, he just killed a thousand people, like right there. <Right.> [01:00:00] But it could have been something that happened over time. Like, he's piling the bodies up as he's taking them out one by one.

J.R.: Oh yeah, that's kind of interesting. 

David: It might be another way to read that, right? 

J.R.: Right. Yeah. 

David: And again, it goes back to the idea of, in our minds we so literalize it that we don't understand sometimes that, you know, this may have happened over a long period of time. But I'm just throwing that out there because it is one of those little clues where something about that phrase means something. Either the heaps upon heaps or I've made donkeys of them, you know, but.

J.R.: Well also it's this idea of the donkey. You know, we think of a donkey and 

David: Well, what did we say about the donkeys? 

J.R.: Right, that's what I was about to say. We sort of go the jackass route But clearly in Judges donkeys mean peace because they're not suitable for war. And so here's this interesting juxtaposition with the jawbone of the peaceful donkey, I'm going to war 

David: Right. There is no ...

J.R.: I've struck down a thousand men. 

David: Peace is no longer an option here. This is how far this has escalated. 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So [01:01:00] that could be seen there. <Yeah.> Sure. No, I like that. That's interesting. 

David: Okay. Yeah, that could be the case. 

J.R.: So, yeah, so he wipes out a thousand men and of course like anybody who kills a thousand men, that's going to wear you out. 

David: He's thirsty. 

J.R.: You're going to be dehydrated. 

David: Man. I could go for a cold one right now. 

J.R.: That's exactly right. And so you have this follow up to this story where he calls upon God and he says, you've granted me this great salvation, but now am I going to die of thirst and fall into the hands of the uncircumcised, which is an interesting, thing to call out to God. Not that, "Hey, I'm thirsty, I'm dying here." But to say it in a way that says, are you going to let me fall in the hands of the uncircumcised? Which is ironic since, Samson himself went to the uncircumcised to find a wife, right?

David: Yeah.

J.R.: Right? I mean, it's interesting that he calls that out to God. It's almost like he recognizes, Hey, I realize I'm not living up to my end of the bargain. I'm not living up to my separateness. 

David: Well, it's also, it almost seems like a very [01:02:00] presumptuous thing to say. The Spirit of God just came upon me. I just killed a thousand people. And now I'm thirsty. And my response is, you know, Hey God, you gave me the strength of this victory, am I just gonna die now? <Right.> It's almost like, well, that's kind of presumptuous. Like, go get a glass of water somewhere, right? But it seems to be - but I, this is, okay, So this is where I also wonder. It's this idea of I've killed the enemy, am I now going to die? And I wonder if this is a point at which Samson realizes, 

J.R.: Oh yeah, that's interesting. 

David: Going back to the lion, right? <Right.> Does Samson realize that he is destined to become the sacrifice? 

J.R.: Yeah. So it's almost not like he's whining to God and say, you're just gonna let me die now? It's maybe a little bit of a acknowledgement that, Hey, is this my time to die?

David: Yeah, you've given me this great victory. Is this it now? 

J.R.: Is this it? Oh, that's interesting. 

David: And it's almost like this [01:03:00] acknowledgement that, like, look, I know that I have not lived a set apart life in any way, shape, or form. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: And through the lion riddle, like, I think there's some sense of, hey, I'm going to become the sacrifice because my life has not been set apart, but the Spirit of God is on me. And so, yeah, I think it's one of those little clues that I do wonder if it's dawning on him. Is it my time to die now? 

J.R.: Right, yeah. I also just like that image of this kind of heart wrenching cry after he's killed a thousand men. 

David: Which goes back to the 

J.R.: Yeah, to the boy coming out again, sobbing to his father, right?

David: Yeah, the strong versus the sweet, right? 

J.R.: Right, yeah, yeah, exactly. No, that's interesting. But I do like the idea that he maybe is asking a genuine question. Is this my moment? Because I know I'm supposed to be the sacrifice. 

David: Is this it? Yeah. And as a clue to that, and I just noticed this, as a clue to that, that's verse 18, we go down to verse 19, he throws the jawbone away, and then verse 20 it says "Samson led [01:04:00] Israel for 20 years in the days of the Philistines." That almost sounds like it's the end of the story. 

J.R.: Yeah, that is interesting. 

David: So Samson says, I've just killed a thousand of them, God, is it my time to go? Are you done with me? Kind of. <Yeah. Yeah.> And then two verses later, it says, "Samson led Israel for 20 years." That's going to lead into the Delilah story. That is going to be his downfall. 

J.R.: Ah, see, okay. That's interesting because that's an odd place to put that verse. Yeah, it doesn't put that at the end of the story like all the other judges.

David: Right, if I'm reading through this I'm thinking well that verse should have been at the end of the Delilah story, right? But it's not and it's right here. And I wonder if it's one of those clues like the answer is God is saying, 'yes.' Me working through you is almost done. It is coming to an end. <Yeah.> But there's one more thing you have to do.

J.R.: Right? So water comes from the rock. He's taken care of the thirst and apparently he judges Israel for 20 years. 

David: For 20 years. Yeah. 

J.R.: Right. Okay. And then we get the Samson [01:05:00] and Delilah. 

David: So now we go to the story that everyone knows. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

David: So the first thing we read, you know, we've just talked about this whole idea of his set apartness, how he's failed to do that. So what is the first thing we read in 16 verse one? 

J.R.: Well, just, I like that it follows right on the heels that he judged Israel for 20 years. Like, hey, way to go, Samson, and then very first thing, where do we find him, Gaza and he saw a prostitute? 

David: Yeah, that's right.

J.R.: Way to go; way to retire.

David: He learned nothing from any of that. Apparently he's still not setting himself apart, right? 

J.R.: Right, well again, it's just that whole, Why don't we hear about the judges judging? You know, here's this opportunity to expand on that a little bit. He judged for 20 years. But it doesn't matter; that's not the point of it, you know. <Right.> Yeah, move on back to the hero story, Right? 

David: All right. So that's just a little side note. Cause that causes another conflict, and then this is where we meet Delilah in verse four. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: Okay. And it actually says, "he fell in love with a woman in the Valley of Sorek whose name was [01:06:00] Delilah. The rulers of the Philistines went to her and said, 'see if you can lure him.'" Right? <Right.> He likes you. Let's play on that. Let's trap him here. 

J.R.: Yeah. And this is kind of a moment of trial for Delilah too, right? When the Philistine leaders told her, coax him and find out what makes him strong, right? She no doubt kind of hears the challenge to her female powers of attraction. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: You know, you kind of get that vibe too. And that's, always been the vibe of Delilah, that she's not kind of on the up and up; she's a little bit wily. She clearly seduces Samson. And so I think it's kind of interesting that that's where we start with Delilah. To go back to that theme of, Hey, where do we get introduced to these primary characters, and this is where we get introduced to Delilah. <Yeah.> She's being told by her people, Hey, seduce him. And basically her character becomes synonymous with this.

David: Yeah. So then verse six, this is where Delilah, it just says, so Delilah goes to Samson, right? <Mm-Hmm. [01:07:00] Yep.> And Samson's already interested so they hit it off. She says, tell me the secret of your great strength and how you can be tied up and subdued. Now this is where it almost gets comical because they go through this routine three times, right? <Right.> But this whole idea, I, I think we have to go back to the idea of the theme of the riddle again, right? 

J.R.: Right. 

David: This is a riddle. 

J.R.: Yeah, sure. 

David: So, so we bring this idea as, like, it's almost like now Samson is the Sphinx, right? He holds the riddle that other people are trying to solve. So I just wanted to point that out.

J.R.: Well, I, okay. So as I've read this before, is that part of the reason, because we read this story and we're like, how did Samson not see what was going on? And one of the possible answers is that he saw very clearly what was going on. He's actually asking the riddle to Delilah and he's wanting her to answer. He's wanting an answer. He's genuinely wanting her answer. You know, it's like he's going to put his hand, his life, in yet again in another [01:08:00] woman and is Delilah gonna be yet another person who betrays him? It's almost like he's okay with the cycle, and he's putting his life in her hands to see if she'll betray him. 

David: Hmm. Okay, so maybe he's putting her to the test. 

J.R.: Yeah, which ties in well with the Sphinx narrative. 

David: Yeah, that's true. That's true. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah. So he's gonna test her now. 

David: So they go through this series of tests. And first thing he says, if anyone ties me with seven fresh bowstrings that have not been dried, I'll become as weak as any other man. And then it says , they do this, they tie him up, which is kind of, you know, they were hiding in the room, and she calls out to him, "Samson, the Philistines are upon you," and they all jump out in his room. They just happen to be there. That would be weird. But he snaps the bowstrings, right? 

J.R.: Well, let me say real quick. It's that word fresh bowstrings again. Which, bowstrings is also made out of dead animals. I think it's guts of something, I don't know. 

David: Okay, okay. 

J.R.: But I think that's [01:09:00] interesting. Fresh bowstrings to imply that we're ignoring the Nazirite vow yet again.

David: Yeah, that's true. So he can, yeah, another theme of, he continues to basically defile himself. 

J.R.: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So yeah, snaps those off. 

David: Yep. Delilah says to Samson, "You've made a fool of me. Now come tell me this time how you can be tied." And he goes through this again. Well now, if anyone ties me securely with new ropes that have never been used. And there again, it's that idea of new, the fresh, but this is just ropes. So, she ties him with new ropes, and then calls to him, and the hidden men in the room jump up, but Samson snaps the ropes, and drives them all off. And then Delilah goes through the same thing. You're making a fool of me again. Now all this just seems absurd, right?

J.R.: Right. Yeah, I think it's intentionally absurd. 

David: Yeah, because, if it were you and me, we would question, Why are all these strange men hiding in my room all the time, right? And so it almost comes across to me as a this [01:10:00] is almost a game to Samson 

J.R.: Yeah, I think it definitely is so he's kind of that idea of the Sphinx. Yeah. 

David: Yeah, he's testing her; this is a game, And that's why he's kind of going through this as absurd as it is at some point you have to go, he knows what's going down, right? <Right.> And I was thinking to this you can think of this today like, you've probably known someone who's in a bad relationship. And you say to them, Why are you with this person? And for whatever reason, you know, they say, I can handle this. I know it's not going anywhere serious, but I can handle this. And the answer is no, you're going to get burned in this. And they kind of know that, but it's almost a game to them. I guess, does that make sense? 

J.R.: No, it makes perfect sense. Yes, we all know these people who are bent on making the same mistakes over and over and over. <Right.> What is it about us that makes the same mistake over and over? 

David: Yeah, maybe it's that idea of maybe it's we fool ourselves by testing ourselves. I failed the last time. I [01:11:00] can handle it this time, even though we can't, right? So I'm just going to do the same self destructive thing. There's some kind of pattern going on here, I think, in this story of Samson with Delilah. 

J.R.: Right, right. I'm going to do the same thing. 

David: Yeah. So then the last one is he does this ridiculous thing, and there's probably a lot there if we really spent some time on it. She weaves seven of his braids into the loom, which probably has something to do with, you know, his hair, the source of his strength, things like that. And, of course, that doesn't work either. She does the same thing. How can you say, I love you when you won't confide in me, even though I've hired repeatedly guys to kill you, you know.

J.R.: Right. Yeah, even though it's obvious what's happening. 

David: It's obviously I'm setting you up three straight times now. <Right.> But then verse 16, , "With such nagging, she prodded him day after day until he was sick to death of it." And so finally he tells her everything. 

J.R.: Yeah, he tells her his heart, all his heart. Which is what he's been dying to do this whole time, by the way. 

David: Yeah. [01:12:00] Yeah. 

J.R.: You know, he's tired of this lifelong battle. I think Samson kind of resigns himself to Delilah in some ways. He sees this as a win-win, right? Either Delilah is going to keep his secret and become this sort of second mother to him and satisfy this inner child that we've been talking about, or else she's going to cut his hair. And finally, he's just going to become a normal man, which is also kind of what he wants, right? I mean, I think he kind of sets up this, maybe a little bit of a, look, either way this plays out, I'm going to get something that I've wanted my whole life, you know? 

David: Yeah. I can see that either way. I'm tired of just playing this game. So either she's my soulmate and I can confide in her, or, you know, she's going to sell me down the river and I'm just going to be a normal person. I just get to have my life back because he does say, he tells her I've been a Nazarite dedicated to God from since my mother's womb, right? "If my head were shaved, my strength would leave me. And I will become as weak as any other man." That's interesting because he says, I've been dedicated to God. But the whole story is, he never has [01:13:00] been. Everything he does betrays his Nazirite vow over and over again. Except for his hair. And we're going to talk about that at the end as well. 

J.R.: But you would think Delilah would look at him and say, really? You've been a Nazirite vow since the womb. Yeah, whatever. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: Aren't you the one with the prostitute, buddy? 

David: Yeah. Where were you last week when, you know, I was introduced to you.

J.R.: Right. She surely saw that it was another trick, right? 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: But it doesn't, she knows that that's it. She somehow infers that this time she really has something because she tells the Philistines come up again. He's told me all his heart. There's that idea of he spilled his heart to her.

David: Yeah, somehow she understood that he was being honest with her, maybe for the first time in that conversation.

J.R.: Right, and this is the first time you see that the Philistines came back and they brought the money with them. It's almost like they understood: oh, yeah, we got something boys, you know? <That's true.> No need of hiding in the closet. This is the real deal.

David: Which is, so in that sense, too, before we finish this story, like, it goes back to this idea that you've [01:14:00] been talking about, is that, like, in this very strong man is this wounded little boy, right? 

J.R.: Yeah.

David: And it's almost like at this moment you feel sadness for him because this is the ultimate betrayal, right? For the first time I showed you my heart and you're still going to betray me. 

J.R.: Yeah. No, that's, exactly it. And that's why I kind of think that Samson is sort of done with this. It's like, look, she's either going to be trustworthy and I'm going to tell her my secret and she's going to hold it, or she's going to betray me and I'm done with it all anyway. 

David: Well, and goes back to that conversation with God, the last chapter, you know, I just slayed a thousand people. Are you done with me? And I think the answer is 'yes.' And I think he knows it. 

J.R.: Yeah. Well, it's just easy to read this and say, is Samson this stupid? You know that he's just going to tell her after all these three obvious attempts to get and I think you read a little bit deeper and it's like, no, [01:15:00] I think he knows full well what's going on. And he's just resolving himself to, well, look, one way or another, I'm done with this whole internal battle of trying to trust people, of trying to in one hand, hold this secret. And, and on the other hand, I'm dying to give it to a woman and find my mother again, so to speak, you know? He's not an idiot in this. The more I read this, the more I think, no, it's not just this meathead moron that's so fixated on his strength that he can't see when somebody's manipulating him. I don't think that's it at all. I think he's just done with the whole deal. 

David: And it's also the part in the film where whoever the main character is realizes what his fate is and resigns himself to it, I think.

J.R.: Yeah, I think that's it. <Yeah.> And it goes into verse 19 where it says, "She made him sleep on her knees." And so here's this boy again. 

David: Yeah, the child-like, yeah. 

J.R.: Yep. The child comes again.

David: Sitting on his mother's lap almost, Yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah, perfect. 

David: So he's asleep on her lap. [01:16:00] She calls someone to shave off the seven braids of his hair and then begins to subdue him. She calls the Philistines they take him. He's powerless at this point. Into verse 20, it says, "He did not know that the Lord had left him." So it's kind of like this, again, we go back, man, the more I think about this, you go back to that question that Samson said with God, "Are you done with me?"

J.R.: Right, right. 

David: And the answer's yeah. 

J.R.: And the answer this time, yes. Yes. Yep, that's it. <Yes.> This is the end of the road. 

David: Yeah. So the Philistine sees him, they gouge his eyes out, and they took him down to Gaza. Binding him with bronze shackles, they set him to grind the grain in the prison. So he becomes basically a slave, he's blinded. And then there's this weird verse that we talked about beforehand. In verse 22 it says, "But the hair on his head began to grow again after it had been shaved," right? 

J.R.: Right, right. 

David: One of those little obvious plot twists that you go, Okay, so the story's not quite done, right? 

J.R.: Right, right, to let us know. [01:17:00] But we were talking about, is his strength really in his hair?

David: Yeah, this is one of the big questions that I come away from the Samson story with and I think we might misunderstand the story. 

J.R.: Yeah, because this is the verse that makes you clearly say, okay, yeah, the strength is clearly in his hair. Because up until now there's really no mention of his hair being well, he tells Delilah that that's where his strength's at. But every time that he does this great feat of strength, it's because the Lord's Spirit rushed on him. So is it his hair or is it the Lord's Spirit? <Yeah.> Or is it both? You know, but I think we kind of had an interesting conversation about, , I don't know that it is. I think the hair is a symbol. <So what is ...> for Samson himself.

David: So what is the hair in relation to the Nazarite vow? The hair is a symbol of the vow, right?

J.R.: Yeah. 

David: The hair has nothing to do with being a Nazarite. John John the Baptist did not slay a thousand Pharisees. 

J.R.: It would have been cool, but [01:18:00] no. 

David: Or maybe they left that part out of the Bible. 

J.R.: Yeah, that's a follow up. 

David: But yeah, so you step back from this and you realize here's what I think has happened. The long hair, the not cutting the hair, is a symbol of his vow, his set apartness. I keep going back to that with Samson. Samson has confused it with his superhuman strength. So that, by the time we really get into the story of Samson, Samson says, the secret to my strength is my hair. And I almost want to go, no, no, no, the hair is your set apartness. Because I think you're right, what you just said. Every time he does something, it says the Spirit of God came upon him. Right? <Right.> And that's almost a very, ah, gosh, materialistic way to read this, is to say that the source of his strength was his long hair. I almost think that's a red herring. I almost think that's a distractor through this story. 

J.R.: Yeah, I think you may be right. It's almost like the long hair is symbolically representative of [01:19:00] Samson's recognition of his vow. 

David: Yeah. This thing that was supposed to set you apart in a purified way almost, it's almost to Samson it becomes like a source of pride or vanity.

J.R.: Right, which is kind of the whole seven locks of his hair sort of imply, not just a dude who has wild long hair, a guy who takes great lengths to ... 

David: Yeah, the seven locks, yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah, to braid it and do whatever that means, you know, to have seven locks of hair. Yeah, that's kind of interesting. The seven locks representing the perfection of the way I've managed to keep my hair. So yeah, there's clearly a vanity angle with that line. 

David: Well, so just as you said that, you could take that to the final step and say, if only he had kept his vow as much as he tended to his own hair. 

J.R.: As perfectly as he kept his hair. 

David: Yeah, yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah, the vow seems to be in juxtaposition to his hair.

David: Yeah, I think so. I think so. 

J.R.: I think that's it. I think you're right. 

David: And so it's interesting then you go back to [01:20:00] this last little verse in verse 22, and it says, "But the hair on his head began to grow again, after it had been shaved." Now if we're right about this 

J.R.: Yeah, go ahead.

David: Okay, so, but if you're right about this, then that's a little bit of a red herring, but it's also symbolic of something, right?

J.R.: Yeah, yeah. As if to say, Samson is realizing the real nature of his vow now. 

David: Yes. 

J.R.: You know, not the braided, manicured version of his hair, but now he's seeing the genuine sincerity of his original vow, perhaps. 

David: And even, I mean, there's so many things in this, because look, when we meet Samson here, he's a slave, right? He's grinding grain, I think, something like that. Yeah, grinding grain in the prison. And his eyes have been gouged out. Now that's something else, too. It's a very mythologic theme. 

J.R.: Oh, sure. 

David: So when his hair on his head begins to grow, we hear that and we go, Oh, he's getting his strength back. I think what this is meant to say is, being [01:21:00] blind, he's starting to actually recognize what this vow means. <Yeah.> And how this is about to play out. 

J.R.: Right. The external windows are now closed. And so now he's forced to look internal. 

David: Yeah. Yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah, that's good. I like that.

David: So as I, you know, women have always been a distraction to him, right, but he can't see anymore. <Right.> So now he's, looking internally. He's looking back at, he's supposed to be set apart, but he hasn't been, right? 

J.R.: And so at that point, metaphorically, his hair begins to grow back.

David: His hair begins to grow back. Yeah. <Okay.> Because I think you brought up this point that you would think someone would say, well, make sure you keep shaving that head, right? <Right.> It would be one of the first things you'd do. 

J.R.: And maybe they did keep doing that, you know, that's obviously , they gave up the secret. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: And so yeah, keep shaving his head. But maybe if this is to be seen metaphorically, that makes sense. 

David: Well, and maybe this is the ultimate riddle.

J.R.: How so? What do you mean? 

David: Well, the hair on his head began to grow again and the strength has [01:22:00] nothing to do with the hair, you know? So the riddle is that, you know, the hair is growing again, but it's actually means that he can see clearly now for the first time in his life. 

J.R.: Yeah, with his eyes gouged out, he can see clearer than ever. 

David: And he's willing to accept that, okay, tie all this together. 

J.R.: Oh yeah, here we go. 

David: That he is the lion to be sacrificed.

J.R.: Yes, yes. 

David: That the, that the, what have we been talking about? The proper sacrifice in this story is Samson himself. <Yes.> And he starts to see that clearly for the first time. 

J.R.: Yes, that's exactly it, I think. 

David: Yeah, it makes so much sense. I mean part of what we've done in this series is we've tried to really work through this at the mythologic level to say what helps makes the most sense of all these bizarre stories. And I think one thing we're trying to say is, yeah, all these little details, it starts to make sense when you see it this way. 

J.R.: Yeah, I think, no, I think this actually really does make sense. And it's funny because sometimes, I mean, we obviously talk about what we're going to discuss on every [01:23:00] podcast. But every one of the judges podcasts, at least for me, while we're talking about it, the light goes off for me. And this is kind of another one of those moments. I think that's dead on. I think that's exactly what this means. 

David: Yeah, the more we talk about it, the more I'm becoming convinced that the strength was not in the hair. The hair symbolized the vow. The strength was in the vow that he never bothered to keep.

J.R.: Right. Right. 

David: Yeah. Yeah. 

J.R.: And with his eyes gone, he can finally see the vow. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: He can finally see his calling. He can finally, clearly see that he is going to be the final sacrifice. Okay, so let's keep going. Yes. 

David: Alright, yeah. So let's finish the story. So, the rulers of the Philistines assembled to offer a great sacrifice to Dagon. Okay, now here's another theme that we've seen. 

J.R.: Oh, yeah, see this every day the god of the outsiders. 

David: Yeah, the god of the outsider. And so this is not Samson versus Philistines. This is Yahweh versus Dagon now, right? <Once again.> Once again. We've looked at what we've looked at Chemosh. We've looked at Baal, you know. This is just the next one up. [01:24:00] Right? 

J.R.: Right. Yep. 

David: So they have this big thing celebrating the fact that our god Dagon has delivered Samson into our hands. All right, so they're setting this up to be a whole thing about the victory of Dagon, right? <Yeah.> Which is only going to make this last part, that much more sweet, right?

J.R.: Right. 

David: With spirits high they shouted bring out Samson to entertain us, right? Bring him out. And when they stood him among the pillars, they chained him there. And ...

J.R.: Well, let me interrupt real quick. <Yeah, go ahead then.> cause this is something I discovered and it actually ties in real well to this idea of he used to have problems with women, obviously. And then his eyes are gone. And so now that is no longer a problem because he can't see them and be drawn in, right? <Right.> This, call to Samson that he may entertain us I read that that's actually has a sexual implication to it. That the word entertain here is a Hebrew word that was used now and again in [01:25:00] the Bible to describe a sexual act.

It's Potiphar's wife uses the same word referring to Joseph. And so some scholars kind of interpret this little phrase is that Samson was humiliated by performing some sort of sex show, right? Which the reason I bring that up is not just because it's interesting tidbit, but because here's this guy who has been known for his sexual prowess, for the lust of his eyes, right? And that now his eyes are gone and he's being forced to carry out this act in a moment that he can see clearly that that's not what he's all about anymore. 

David: Okay. 

J.R.: Right? So, so it's just, I think that's worth pointing out. I think that's interesting, but they bring him out to entertain everybody, whether it's that way or not. And so here's where Samson really sees his final sacrifice. And they tie them up between the two pillars. It says specifically on the roof of this house were 3,000 men and women who looked on while Samson entertained. [01:26:00] So now he calls out to God and he says, "Oh Lord, please remember me, please strengthen me just this once." Which is ironic because he's done this several times, right? <Yeah.> Please strengthen me only this once that I may be avenged on the Philistine for my two eyes. Right? So even now he's tying it to what the Philistines did. 

David: Right. Not the fact that, you know, I was sent here to deliver justice on behalf of Israel or anything. It's like, let me get even for these two eyes that they took.

J.R.: Right. And then he says the final famous line in verse 30, "Let me die with the Philistines." Which is kind of fascinating. <Yeah. Yeah.> It's almost like, that's what the whole thing boils down to. This one sharp statement, let my soul die as it had always lived, right? Without being truly close to the other tribes, the other tribes gave me up. I'm constantly betrayed. So, let me die among the foreigners who over and over betrayed me, and so that's this poetic end, this final poetry. 

David: [01:27:00] Yeah, it's almost, just as you were saying that, it's almost an admission that I've acted more like a Philistine, <Yeah.> than an Israelite. Yeah. 

J.R.: Right, yeah. 

David: All my wives have been there. 

J.R.: Let me die with my people, almost.

David: Yeah. So just let me die among them and it's also the final mission of sacrifice, right? 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's it I think that's right. And then just a few verses later, of course, he brings down the house and kills and we'll come back to this but it says that they buried him. So that's a neat juxtaposition to verse 31. After he died, it says, then his brothers and all his family who we haven't heard about at all, except for his mother and father. 

David: Nothing about the family.

J.R.: Right? Then his brothers and all his family came down and took him and brought him up and buried him between Zoa and Eshdol, right in the tomb of Manoah, his father. So it goes back to that win-win. This is what I've always wanted. I either wanted a woman that I could give my heart to and her not betray me, or I've wanted to be back with my people. And so, poetically, again, he ends up back with what he wanted his [01:28:00] whole life and never could quite get. He always had this tension with his parents. Nobody showed up to his wedding. They had to give Philistines over to be his best men. And finally his brothers are the ones that take him up. And so it's kind of a poetic end. 

David: Yeah. And basically summarizes his life, that all the things that he could not attain in his life, his death had to attain.

J.R.: Yeah, because he was focused on the wrong thing. 

David: Yeah, yeah. <Yeah.> And the other thing I'll just point out to put an exclamation point on the whole Yahweh versus Dagon, you know, is when he brings the temple down and kills 3,000 of them, this was a celebration of the triumph of Dagon, right? And It ends up being a huge disaster. 

J.R.: It obviously goes a direction they didn't intend. 

David: Which again is you know, Yahweh is stronger than Dagon. Yeah, once again, Yahweh wins this round, right? So, <Right, yeah, that's right.> Right. All right, so we've talked about a lot of the themes we've talked a lot about , you know, the vow, the hair, all that stuff. But there's a couple of other big [01:29:00] themes that we haven't got to that I want to get to real quick, and then we'll wrap this up, right? 

J.R.: Okay. 

David: So, there's this interesting idea in Greek myth that the hero's biggest weakness, okay, the fatal flaw that brings a hero down, and I believe this is Socrates that mentioned this, is called their hamartia, right?

And if you don't know that word, it's the Greek word that we translate as sin. Throughout the New Testament, when you see the word sin, it's the word hamartia. Okay, now that's a really interesting connection to this story. That the fatal flaw of the hero is their hamartia. It's their sin, right? It's the thing that brings them down. The, the demigod, right? The invincible person, whether it's Achilles, right? What was Achilles' hamartia? 

J.R.: Yeah, yeah, his ankle.

David: His ankle, right? The one spot on him where his mother dipped him in the water to make him invincible, right? 

J.R.: Yeah. 

David: And so it really is interesting, this idea of hamartia. And I think Samson [01:30:00] embodies this so well, you know, so what is his hamartia? What is this fatal flaw? And I think we'd have to say, look, it's women, right? It's pride, you could say, you know, that's the thing that brought him down. So there is this theme that we see is what brings the hero down. And it's their quote, sin, which I think is such an interesting picture. So ...

J.R.: Right. Well, and, and just the idea that Samson continued to rely on the lion, as opposed to the honey. You see him reach for it. He tries throughout the stories to kind of be this sweet philosopher, romantic, right? But, when things go sideways, man, he always reverts to the lion. He always reverts to the animal, so to speak. 

David: Right. He's always going to escalate things. Which is interesting because it says he killed 3,000 people, right, when he took the temple down.

J.R.: Oh, yeah, sure.

David: So that's the escalation, right? It was right. It was 30 people to get their linens. It was 300 and now it's 3,000. 

J.R.: Right, [01:31:00] right. And it's worth saying real quick that that number 30 because this is throughout Judges, we've said it in previous episodes that 30 represents what a gang, you know, unsuitable for wise ruling. It represents a group. But I read somewhere that 30 can be a symbol of devotion to a particular task, right? Or a calling.

And so if you go back to the 30 companions, that's an indication that they were dedicated to the downfall of Samson from the beginning. You know what I mean? There is 30 companions. <Yeah.> They've got a task. They clearly are trying to bring him down. That's why they went straight to his wife, said, tell us the riddle.

And so this idea of 30 is like it's dedication to an idea, but not a complete idea, right? That's the problem. <Yeah.> And so this escalation of 30 is representative of one aspect of a complete idea, but the idea itself is incomplete, right? So, so again, they're dedicated [01:32:00] to the particular task. And so you can see that. And so to go back to, well, we'll get more into this next episode. And so that's worth saying, and then I think next episode we'll kind of get into a fuller picture of that because there is a fuller side to it.

David: Okay. 

J.R.: Okay. 

David: Well, the last thing I'll say is to wrap up how we began this, which is this idea of the comparisons between Samson as this mythic hero versus Heracles or Hercules as a mythic hero. And, you know, all the things that we read that said, Oh, there's clearly just borrowing from this to kind of come up with their own hero. You and I had a conversation, it's been a while back. We were actually sitting at a restaurant when this dawned on us. <Right.>

And I do think this is interesting and It's worth finishing this with. If this is written in any kind of way to resemble a Herculean type of story, it is actually, I think, when you really read this story, it is actually a polemic against it. In other words, it is saying [01:33:00] look, if Samson resembles any kind of ancient hero in these other myths, it's because in the Bible, he is the anti-hero.

J.R.: Right. 

David: Right? 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. Your hero actually falls far short. 

David: Right. Yeah.

J.R.: In the biblical narrative. 

David: Right. 

J.R.: Yeah. I like that idea, because I do think that's clearly what this narrative is saying. Because Samson's, look, nobody thinks Samson's a great leader, a great, heroic, he certainly has heroic strength, his character is not heroic in any part of the story other than the very end.

David: Right, right. 

J.R.: And so, you're right, he's kind of this anti-hero who, at the very end, God uses him anyway. And at the very end, he understands his original vow and makes the proper sacrifice despite all of his flaws. 

David: Right. It's almost like that's the only time he actually rises to the level of what you would call a biblical hero is the willingness to sacrifice himself.

J.R.: Right.

David: So yeah, , if Samson serves an [01:34:00] example of anything, it's how the Greek archetypal hero is not the biblical hero. It's actually opposite of what people oftentimes try to make the Samson story be, let's put it that way, right? 

J.R.: Right. Which goes back to what we were saying at the beginning. We don't think that this is the Israelites making up their own Greek myths. And one of the proofs is exactly how this story played out. <Exactly.> It's like, you know, it would have ended better. 

David: If you, if you were trying to create a Hebrew hero after the archetypes of others, then this is a really, you didn't do a very good job with this. 

J.R.: This ain't it, man. No. Yeah, exactly. 

David: All right, so we're almost done with the Judges series. We were actually going to end on Samson. 

J.R.: Oh gosh, and then we got into chapter 19. 

David: Yeah, but in starting to look at the final chapters, because this is another thing I think I didn't realize, is that you think Samson is the end of this book of Judges, but there's five more chapters left. 

J.R.: Oh yeah. 

David: He's the last Judge.

J.R.: And they are [01:35:00] deep. 

David: But there's a lot going on in them. So, next episode, we're calling it kind of a bonus episode. But we're gonna hit on those themes really at a high level. We're not going to dive through five chapters and this isn't going to be two hours long, but.

J.R.: We don't have to get into details, but we are going to tie it all together. Because that's what I really, really think the final chapters of Judges does, is it ties together the entire book and you really can't grasp the overall theme of the book of Judges without these final chapters.

David: Right. Yeah. 

J.R.: And so yeah, we'll definitely get into that. I can't wait. 

David: Yeah, that's going to be fun. All right. Thanks for hanging with us. Thanks for listening. If you have questions or thoughts or feedback, you can connect with us on our Facebook page. You can connect with us on a Fanlist page. The links are in the show notes if you click on the little description, all the show notes should open up and you'll see various links that we have there. We'd love to hear from you and answer any questions and we will talk to you next episode.

J.R.: We'll see you [01:36:00]