Mythic Stories of the Judges: The Final Chapters

Join us on a mythic odyssey through the book of Judges! 📖 In this episode, we delve into the disturbing and complex events of chapters 17-21, from Micah's idol and the wandering Levite to the grim atrocities in Gibeah and the ensuing civil war with the tribe of Benjamin. 🛡️ Explore key themes like abdicated responsibility, improper sacrifices, and the consequences of rash oaths. 🔍 Tune in for an in-depth analysis of these chaotic narratives and their profound symbolic meanings, wrapping up our comprehensive study of Judges. ✨

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Chapters

• 0:00 The Unexpected Bonus Episode
• 10:04 Micah and the Missing Money
• 23:43 The Danites' Plundering and Moral Decline
• 39:03 The Levite and His Concubine
• 52:26 The Aftermath: A Nation in Shock
• 1:02:12 Restoring the Tribe of Benjamin
• 1:15:38 Final Reflections on Judges

Transcript

J.R.: [00:00:00] believe this is where I got out my phone and texted you and said Dude, have you read chapter 19? What in the world? 

David: I never heard this story in sunday school 

J.R.: This was not on the flannel graph. 

David: Hello, welcome to the Navigating an Ancient Faith Podcast. J. R., we were supposed to end this series on the Judges with Samson, but we've said this before. Once we really started reading through the Book of Judges, we realized, first of all, Samson is the last judge, but there are still five chapters left.

J.R.: Right. Yeah, first thing you notice is it doesn't end with Samson. Yeah. There's five chapters, the weird chapters, that you have to sift through at the end. 

David: Samson, Delilah, you think that's the end of the story, but no. There's a lot more going on in Judges. We read those chapters, what, 17 through 21? And there's a lot of bizarre stuff going on in there. 

J.R.: Well, I think I said in a previous podcast that [00:01:00] early on, as I read through Judges, I texted you and said, Dude, have you gotten to Chapter 19 yet? Yeah. This is nuts. And so I think from the very beginning, we sort of said, OK, we're going to have to do a bonus episode.

David: Yeah. If we could figure out these last chapters, we're going to do a bonus episode and try to explain them. And that's what we're going to do today, because one of the things that I've experienced, at least, is I have learned so much, actually, from reading through Judges and studying it.

Once you start to see some of the themes, some of the symbolism, once you start to read it mythically, I actually think chapters 17 through 21 start to make sense. And that's a big leap for me, because when I first read it, I didn't know what the heck was going on in those chapters. Right, right. 

J.R.: Well, not only do they make sense, it's absolutely essential.

David: Right, they actually tie the whole story together. 

J.R.: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I don't think you can do a comprehensive study of Judges without digging into the meaning of the final five [00:02:00] chapters. 

David: Right, and certainly if you stop at chapter 16, I think there's probably themes you're gonna not see.

J.R.: Oh, absolutely.

David: Yeah. So that's what we're going to try and do today. And then we will officially be done with this series. 

J.R.: The big question is how do we cover five chapters in something, approximating an hour. 

David: Yeah. This will be a five-hour episode. That's right. We're going to venture into the long form podcast. 

J.R.: Yeah, I don't think we're ready to go Rogan yet. 

David: No, we're not going to do that. We're going to try and keep this around an hour, hour and a half, hopefully. But we'll see how this goes, because there's a lot of material to cover. At the same time, we can't get into the weeds in all this, but there are some big themes.

And I guess a way to start is just to recap some of the common themes that we've been able to see in hindsight going through these stories of the judges. One of them just being responsibility abdicated, right? We've talked about that several times. 

J.R.: Yeah, yeah. There's differentt ways that this happened. I think the first time we noticed this was maybe in Deborah, men weren't following through with their [00:03:00] responsibilities and the women had to rise up. It was sort of that strange story. It was obviously somebody abdicating their responsibility.

But then once you saw it, we kept reading and we saw it in many of the other stories of the judges. 

David: Yeah, in almost all the stories, someone wasn't stepping up in their responsibility. Someone was hesitant to step fully into the opportunity that God had given them. Right. So there's that theme of abdicated responsibility.

Another theme has been just an improper orientation to God. so we've talked about the spiritual realm mirroring the material world. A lot of these stories actually boil down to Yahweh versus a pagan god. 

J.R.: They tie in the specific god of the enemy that Yahweh is going up against. And it's kind of funny because it's always tucked into pretty much every one of these longer form stories of the judges that we've been covering.

The pagan god is tucked in there somewhere. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: When you see it, you can see that that's a recurring theme throughout. 

David: Yeah. And then it ends up really, truly being a showdown [00:04:00] between that pagan god and Yahweh, God. And that ends up really, defining the story.

J.R.: Yeah, the deeper meaning behind the story. 

David: Yeah, where it seemed like an incidental thing to the side when you first start reading the story. Another big theme is the proper sacrifice, right? Again, this becomes unmistakable when you see how God is directing people to make a proper sacrifice, here's how you do it, versus people making sacrifices themselves that things tend to go awry. 

J.R.: And that was so obvious in the Jephthah story, right? 

David: Yes. 

J.R.: But you're right. Once we saw that Jephthah sacrificing his daughter or making the promise to sacrifice the first thing that came through the gate when he came home. Once you saw that, then we started going back to some of the previous ones and saying, Oh, wow, here it is here earlier in the Deborah story. Here it is earlier in the, Gideon story. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: And so, and then you saw it clearly in kind of culminates maybe in the Samson story. But yeah, that idea of the proper versus improper sacrifice is a clear theme that you kind of see throughout [00:05:00] Judges. 

David: Yeah, and we've also seen these cycles of peace and chaos. I think we've already mentioned this, but seven times, you brought this out, seven times there's this phrase, again, "the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the Lord," which marks another cycle, right? It marks another cycle of chaos and then the restoration, usually by one of the Judges, to restore things back to order.

J.R.: Yeah, it's kind of a way to divide up some of the chapter headings maybe of Judges that here's another cycle and here we go again. But we notice a new cycle in the final five chapters. 

David: Right, that leads us into what we're going to talk about today because indeed a new cycle starts. Because you don't see that phrase anymore, instead you see a new phrase.

And you see that phrase first in Judges chapter 17 verse 6 where it says, "In those days, Israel had no king. Everyone did as they saw fit." And that, I think, is mentioned at least four times in these last five chapters, which tells you, again, that this marks some kind of cycle [00:06:00] happening. Something new happening, right?

J.R.: Right. Well, we talked about it last episode in Samson, because first time you see it is in the Samson story. Or at least, maybe not those specific words, that everyone did what was right in their own eyes. But we put our finger on it in the Samson story, kind of how Samson said, "I want this woman, this Philistine woman, go get her for me."

And it says a couple times in the Samson story that Samson did what was right in his own eyes. So that was a theme started in Samson, the final judge, and then that carries out the rest of the five chapters. 

David: Yeah, and I think, doesn't Samson even say, for she is right in my eyes?

J.R.: Yeah, he makes it pretty clear. It's one of those things that once he said it, you're like, oh wow. 

David: That's a clear connection to what's going to happen throughout these last five chapters. Right. Now we truly descended into this whole period of the judges isn't working. We've seen a decline since Deborah. We talked about how Deborah was kind of the ideal. Right. And it basically declined from there. And I think that [00:07:00] phrase when Samson says, you know, she is right in my eyes. And then it follows with these cycles of everyone did was right in their own eyes. You go, okay, that's 

J.R.: a shift, which it kind of begs the question. What's the difference between doing evil in the eyes of the Lord, I think that was the earlier phrase, and everyone doing what's right in their own eyes? Is there a distinction between those two things? I mean, it's a clear shift in the cycle heading that we've been discussing, but what's the practical difference between those two ways of living?

David: That's a good question. I would venture a guess to say that if you're doing evil in the eyes of the Lord, something in that phrase at least acknowledges that maybe you know what is right and wrong, and you're choosing not to do it? 

J.R.: Well, you can also be united as a nation doing evil. You can be united but miss the mark. And the final chapters of Judges is sort of this understanding of a nation uniting. And again, they may not be coming [00:08:00] together under the right circumstances. But basically, kind of the difference maybe between a nation being united but missing the mark versus a culture where everyone creates their own individual morality.

David: Yeah, I was going to go that route too, that there might be a difference of a culture having certain accepted practices and some people rebelling against that or choosing not to do it versus a culture. And look, you don't have to look very far to see this even day. Oh, sure. A culture that just says, look, everyone do whatever you want.

And there is no more standard, right? The standard is whatever people decide works for them. Right. But then there's nothing in that case that actually binds a culture together anymore. And I think maybe that's what that phrase is getting at. 

J.R.: Yeah, and like you said, we can see it in our culture today, this insistence on individuality makes it impossible to be united. Maybe that's it, in the extremes. That its a balance between those two things. Yeah. 

David: So here's an example that just occurred to [00:09:00] me. It used to be in politics that if a politician cheated usually it was a guy who cheated on his wife, that was the end of his political career, right? There was an acknowledgement by society that there are still standards here.

J.R.: Right. Wasn't it Kennedy that they said was going to be unelectable because he was divorced? 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: And I don't even think that was anything fishy going on. Yeah, but yeah, they said he was unelectable. And so yeah, that kind of started the 60s. Kennedy got elected being divorced. And of course, that's laughable now.

Yeah, divorce. 

David: Well, today, you know, if a politician is caught in some kind of scandal, a lot of times, the public just says, well, who cares, right? 

J.R.: Yeah, the tack for handling that is just, hold on, the news cycle will pick up something else and they'll forget about it.

David: And so maybe it's, that difference of doing what's evil on the side of the Lord versus everyone just doing what they want to do, you know?

Yeah. So maybe that's an example of that. I don't know. 

J.R.: Yeah, I [00:10:00] do think we can see that kind of in our own American culture today. 

David: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, Judges chapter 17. Alright, let's try and work our way through this. So, Judges 17:1 starts out with this man named Micah, and this weird story about how money goes missing. 

J.R.: Well, and what we've been doing in the previous episodes is kind of given the Sunday School version of the story of Samson or Gideon or whatever. But there is no Sunday school version because a lot of this stuff I didn't realize, or it's certainly not covered in Sunday school.

That's true. So it's going to be difficult to kind of summarize it because most people don't know this story, but we obviously can't read five chapters, but at the same time, maybe we can kind of summarize what's going on.

David: Yeah, yeah. 

It is a little bit difficult to summarize these stories because these are for reasons that we will soon find out. These are not stories you hear in Sunday school. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: Yeah, there's no flannel graphs depicting some of these stories. So, Judges chapter 17. Alright, so , we're introduced to a man named Micah.

And the story immediately revolves [00:11:00] around missing money. 1,100 shekels. And apparently his mother is in a panic because this money goes missing. But Micah reassures his mother and says, don't worry, I took it. Which we were talking right beforehand. You were saying 1,100 shekels is a lot of money. 

J.R.: Oh, no, , it's a fortune, not even a small fortune.

It's a significant fortune because later on in verse 11 we'll get to this that , Micah offers a Levite who's traveling through, he offers him 10 pieces of silver a year to stay and live with them and be his priest.

David: So that'd be like an annual wage, basically.

J.R.: Sure, So if 10 pieces of silver represents something along the line of five or ten thousand dollars a year, which that may even be a low figure. Then 1,100 is gonna be something like half a million to a million dollars. So this is not a small amount of money. 

David: Yeah, it sounds like basically the mother's retirement or something like that.

J.R.: Yeah, her 401k.

David: Which is weird because It's a huge amount and it goes missing. And she [00:12:00] seems rather nonchalant about the fact that her son just cashed her 401k out, right? 

J.R.: Right. 

David: And she goes, oh, thank goodness you took it. And he said, yeah, don't worry, Mom, I took it, right? 

J.R.: And this is going to set up a constant pattern of passing comments that we look at and we're like, wait a second.

And then they just move on, you know, it's almost like these incidental remarks all over the place. These throwaway lines, these casual comments that are thrown all in these past five chapters, really all through Judges, it does this. They're red flags that will eventually turn around and look back and see that these were actually big deals, you know, that it shouldn't be overlooked.

Yeah. So this is one of the first ones. 

David: Yeah. So he transfers the money back to her account for whatever reason he took it in the first place. Again, one of those little things we're not told. And in response, she say "I solemnly consecrate my silver to the Lord for my son to make an image overlaid with silver. I will give it back to you."

So she's basically saying in thanks for my [00:13:00] son returning this I'm going to consecrate the silver to the Lord to make an image overlaid with silver. Okay, so we start to see another familiar pattern here, right? 

J.R.: Yeah an ephod. 

David: Yeah, we saw it with Gideon, right Gideon makes an ephod and I think someone else made an image I forget, in one of the other stories.

So, we start to see a reoccurring pattern. And that's what we need to pay attention to what's going on here then. 

J.R.: Right. Here's the improper sacrifice. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: And so pay attention to where this goes. 

David: Yeah, so she takes 200 shekels of the silver. She gives it to a silversmith and they use it to make an idol and it was put in Micah's house. And that kind of sets up the next part of the story. But there's a couple things in this weird little first five verses that I think we need to just hit on real quick and then we'll move on with the story. All right.

 Alright, so, the first thing is, we talked about this early on, is the symbolism of 11. And I wonder if this little [00:14:00] insignificant story, I wonder if it is introducing to the reader the idea of something is missing, right? Something went missing. Right. And I think it's a way to tell a story that says, This seems like an insignificant thing, but it represents something larger. And there again, we talked about the number 11, I think, in one of our previous episodes. 

J.R.: Right. That it kind of represents, well, the obvious is that it's one short of 12. So it's something incomplete, but in general it sort of represents chaos, maybe. 

David: Yeah, yeah. 

J.R.: And that could be representative of the time of the judges, or it could be representative, in the household of Micah.

David: Yeah. First of all, I have to say the number 12 definitely would mean something. Sure. Right? 12 tribes of Israel, 12 disciples in the New Testament, right? And so I was thinking about this. If you were reading a story in the New Testament where Jesus says his 11 disciples went with him, that would immediately trigger something in Christians, right, who are familiar with it.

You'd go, wait a minute, [00:15:00] 11? Where's the last one? And I think maybe this is meant to do something like that. 

J.R.: Well, when Judas went and did what he did it wasn't too long after the resurrection that they decided, Hey, we need to have this 12th disciple, and so they cast lots for it. So they saw the significance of it. Right. 

David: Right. 11 was incomplete, and it wasn't going to do that Judas was no longer in the picture, and now he just has 11 disciples. That wasn't clearly going to work. That's what this little story is supposed to tell us. 

J.R.: You showed me a picture, and I've never seen this, but you sent me a picture of the 12 tribes of Israel. And it showed the center camp and it showed the tabernacle and then it had to the north, south, east and west. It had three tents that represented the tribes and then the individual tents of each tribe out past that.

And so it created this interesting picture that has been in my head ever since. And so when you talk about the number three or the number 30, what that popped in my head is, oh, that's only protecting [00:16:00] one side of the entire camp. It's clearly a partial defense leaving the other sides exposed.

And I think 11 sort of does the same thing. It's a more complete defense, but there's a hole in the armor. No, that's a good way to say it. There's a weakness, you know, and, ever since I saw that image, that's what pops in my head about  these numbers. 

David: Yeah. 11 tribes surrounding the tabernacle at the center of camp doesn't work.

Right. There's going to be a breach somewhere. 

J.R.: Yeah. It leaves a weak spot. 

David: Yeah. And so I think that's what this idea of 11,000 represents, combined with the story, that it was lost. And now it's being pulled back in I actually think that's the overarching theme in Judges. Yeah, something is missing and it needs to be pulled back in. We're going to unpack that. All right, so the second thing real quick is Micah builds this shrine then this household idol and he puts it in his house. Now, that necessitates the need and we've seen this too.

I think we saw it with [00:17:00] Gideon - it necessitates the need for a household priest. And that leads us to the next part of this story chapter 17 is actually pretty short. 

J.R.: Yeah, then we happen to come across the young man that's traveling that so happens to be a Levite. 

David: So this man stands in need of a priest and a young Levite happens to show up on the scene and the man puts two and two together and says, Hey, why don't you stay on and be my priest right? I've got this nice new shiny household shrine. And the Levite says, sure, that's what I'll do. Sounds good to me. 

J.R.: And we'll come back to this point later, but just for clarity. This is the first time Levites have been mentioned in the book of judges. Is that correct?

David: I believe so. And I think that's one of those key points that it seems weird that a Levite just shows up on the scene, but that's supposed to tell us something. Where have the Levites been? 

J.R.: Well, every other tribe, and we have confirmed this, every other tribe is mentioned through the book of judges. Except for the Levites at this point. And so it's interesting that our [00:18:00] story of the judges, , some came from different tribes, you know, we kind of laid all this out, but they came from different tribes and everybody's represented except for Levite until this point. But put a pin in that and remember that. 

David: Well, okay. So that's an important point. Because it seems incidental that this Levite happens to wander through, when I read Judges now, I picture it almost like a movie scene, right? So all of a sudden on screen is this Levite, and I think we're actually meant to go, Hey, yeah, where have the Levites been?

J.R.: Yeah, I think an ancient reader would look at it and say, Oh yeah, the Levites. I forgot about them. Where have they been this whole time? Yeah, yeah, for good reason, because everything's been in chaos during all this time. So maybe it is supposed to be a little bit of a reminder that, yeah, Levites are actually part of the nation of Israel, but you haven't heard of them up until this point for good reason.

David: And they're an important part. 

J.R.: Oh, yeah, sure.

David: They're the whole priestly class, they're the whole religious structure that the worship of Yahweh is supposed to [00:19:00] be facilitated through, right? Yeah, yeah. And so, in some sense, we get introduced to this Levite, and all of a sudden, you should start thinking, wait, where have they been? Why aren't they doing their job, right? 

J.R.: And to go back to that theme of responsibility abdicated, this is where you say, Huh, I wonder if the previous 16 chapters of the Book of Judges is an abdication of the responsibility of the Levites. 

David: Yeah. And we'll see as this story unfolds that the Levites really aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing.

One of my favorite shows, you know this, on Netflix, all time, is The Last Kingdom. Oh yeah. And it doesn't come out so much in the show, but as you read through the books, one of the main characters early on is Brita. It's the love interest of Uhtred, if you're familiar with the show.

But about six, I don't know, six, seven books into it, because it's thirteen books. Fantastic, by the way. That's, that's quite a commitment. Yeah, yeah, I've read them all. But Brita disappears, right? And [00:20:00] I remember a particular book where I picked it up, started the next book, I'm reading through it, and it never really crossed my mind about what happened to her.

 And all of a sudden in this pivotal moment about halfway through the next book this person is wearing a cape. She's threatening the king's son or something like that. Actually, I won't get into the story, but it's a very pivotal moment and she peels off her hood, and it's Brita. Ah. And at that moment in the book, you go, ah, she's been missing.

David: This is what Where's she been? That's right. Where's she been? What has she been up to, right? Yeah. And suddenly she's inserted back in the story. And I thought of that scene in the book when we start to read about this Levite, because I think it's supposed to almost have the same effect. Hey, where's Where have the Levites been?

J.R.: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think you're right. 

David: Yeah. All right. So, to finish up Chapter 17, he employs the priest, and before we get to the very end of Judges 17, which is a really ominous verse, keep in mind here that [00:21:00] the religious structure of Israel as laid out in the Torah, after the defeat of the Promised Land, right, was not supposed to be that people would have household shrines and household priests. Right? Sure. So when we see that throughout Judges, it should tell us that this isn't working how it was supposed to. The Levites were supposed to be serving as priests of the nation. 

J.R.: Of the nation, right. Well, and that's kind of obvious in verse 9 when it says, Micah says to him, where do you come from? And the Levite replies, I'm from Bethlehem. And I'm going to sojourn where I may find a place. So in other words, he's sort of acknowledging, yeah, I'm sort of a priest for hire. I'm just wandering, looking for a tribe that will hire me that needs a priest. And it's another one of those offhand comments that I think we go back to and say, yeah, I knew that didn't sound right.

David: Right. 

J.R.: I knew that the Levites weren't just wandering around. That's not how this worked. 

David: Yeah, exactly. That's clearly [00:22:00] signaling that something's not going well here, right? Right, exactly. I think we're told later in Judges that the tabernacle at this point is in Shiloh, and that should have been where these priestly functions were happening.

And so it is weird that this priest says, well, I don't have anything to do. I'm looking for employment. And you think, wait a minute. Why aren't you in Shiloh? Exactly. Why aren't you fulfilling your role in whatever your priestly family was set up to do. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: And so this guy's just wandering around looking for a job, you know? 

J.R.: Yeah. So, A) where have the Levites been up until this point? And B) why are they just wandering around from tribe to tribe, looking for individual households to be priests in, to do their priestly functions? So yes, I think an ancient reader would have picked right up on this.

David: Yes, yeah. So then we get to verse 13 that ends this chapter, and this is an ominous verse, and it said, "And Micah then said, 'Now I know that the Lord will be good to me, since this Levite has become my priest.'" [00:23:00] Everything's going to work out fine, isn't it? 

J.R.: Yeah, what can go wrong?

David: Yeah, what can go wrong? 

J.R.: Was it the movie Scream, where the guy said, I'll be right back? Something you never say in any horror movie is, I'll be right back. Oh, yeah. And then he leaves the room and says, I'll be right back. Okay, so this is an, I'll be right back moment. 

David: Right. Everything's going to be fine. I've got the shrine. I've got a household priest. Now the Lord's going to be good to me. Everything's going to work out. 

J.R.: Yeah, the Titanic attendant. What can go wrong? 

David: Yeah. God himself couldn't sink this ship, right? That's the famous line. 

J.R.: Yeah, you said it out loud. Oh, well. Okay, so yeah, so Micah says it out loud. What can go wrong? Lord is bound to prosper me because I've got a, Priest Levite in my house, right? What can go wrong? Okay.

David: And that leads us to chapter 18 and things go sideways. 

J.R.: Things clearly go wrong.

David: Predictably here, yeah. 

So chapter 18 then starts with one of these signals of a new cycle because it starts by saying, "In those days, Israel had no king." It's a new cycle. Right. [00:24:00] And it goes on in verse one to say, In those days the tribe of the Danites was seeking a place of their own where they might settle because they had not yet come into an inheritance among the tribes of Israel.

So we're introduced to the Danites and a bit of an odd phrase that they were looking for a place of their own. They hadn't come into their inheritance yet. 

J.R.: Right. And it's another casual red flag. If you know, and I had to look this up, but if you know about the history of the Danites, they were given an inheritance just like all the other tribes.

David: Yeah. Everyone was. 

J.R.: They didn't, yeah. But they didn't secure it back in Joshua 19. They didn't eradicate everybody in the land and claim it as their own, and so they lost it. 

David: Yeah. And one of the stories that you see throughout Judges is each one of these tribes is actually fortifying or driving away the people that they failed to drive away at the end of the conquest of the land, right?

But for the Danites, then, you get the picture that they were never able to [00:25:00] do this. And so they've been given this land, but it's inhabited, I think it's probably by the Philistines, if you look at it on a map. And they're wandering around going, Hey, what happened to our part of the land?

J.R.: Yeah, it goes back to that original theme of responsibility abdicated, is that they never secured it. 

David: Exactly. 

J.R.: Right. So here come the Danites. They don't have an inheritance, so they're upset about this, but it goes back to the original problem of it was never secured properly the way that they were told to secure it.

David: Right, right. And their response in verse 2 is really interesting, because it says, "Then the Danites then sent five of their leading men to spy out the land and explore it." And they actually are exploring the land of Ephraim Right, and the way it says it is they sent five of their men from Zorah and Eshtol to spy out the land.

Now, what does that sound like? 

J.R.: Yes, sounds like the promised land. 

David: That sounds like Joshua and Caleb, right? 

J.R.: Joshua and Caleb. 

David: I think it even talks about this place Eshtaol if I'm not mistaken. [00:26:00] But the picture that you see then is the Danites are actually almost recreating this spying of the promised land. But again, they're doing it to another tribe. So we see the tribes, right. 

J.R.: They're doing it within the land of Israel, so it's not like they're going into another, yeah, an enemy territory. They're taking it from their own people. 

David: Right, right. So we see, again, we see a descent into tribalism. And I think that's another big theme throughout Judges.

J.R.: Oh yeah, absolutely. 

David: Instead of cooperating with your fellow tribe, acting like one nation here we see the Danites actually spying on the people of Ephraim, treating them like they're their enemy. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: Because they couldn't secure their own land. 

J.R.: Again, doing what's right in one's own eyes. 

David: Yeah, yeah.

J.R.: Or on a tribal level, maybe. 

David: Yeah, every tribe for themselves, right? 

J.R.: Yeah, sure. 

David: Alright, so that leads them to run across then, who's house but Micah's house, right? That's convenient. They just run across Micah's house. And they run across this Levite priest. And this is where [00:27:00] these stories start to come together and merge, you know? Why are you here? Who brought you here? And he told them, hey, i'm the priest of Micah and he has this really nice idol right made of a lot of silver. And that's not the thing you share. Hey, I'm working at my uh, boss's house who's got a lot of money and a lot of expensive art to these people who are, spying out the land, right?

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. The Levite's selling them out. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah, well, again, he's looking out for himself, which becomes obvious a few verses down where he's talking to the Danites are like, Hey, go with me. And he's like, Yeah, might as well. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: So he sells out. He's completely going to the highest bidder. It's so clear. 

David: Yeah, so that's where this is headed. It's interesting because the Danite spies they say when they find out he's a priest, there's this interesting in verse five interesting phrase where it says, "Please inquire of God to learn whether our journey will be successful."

And the priest answered, the Levite, "Go in peace, your journey has the Lord's approval." Now that's interesting because first of all, it [00:28:00] doesn't say he ever inquired of God, or we would say, it doesn't say he ever prayed about it, right, or made a proper sacrifice. He just kind of says, no, no, no, go in peace. You're good.

J.R.: Yeah, right, a little off the cuff. 

David: Yeah a little off the cuff there And then what happens is they go back to their people the Danites and say hey, there's good land here. We found this sweet setup. This guy has a lot of silver laying around his house. It's prime for the pickings, right? That's basically what they say. That's the report. 

And so 600 of the men of Dan, armed for battle, go back to Ephraim and they go to Micah's house. So we get down to verse 14 and one of the five men who are spying now he says, "Do you know that one of these houses has an ephod and some household gods and an image overlaid with silver? Now, you know what to do." So it's clear what they're going to do here. 

J.R.: Yeah. I love that. Now, you know what to do. Yeah. It's like, we all know what's about to happen. So no need to spell it out. Yeah. Go do your thing. 

David: It's obviously what we [00:29:00] need to do next. Yeah. We need to go to Micah's house. We need to plunder it. We need to take all these things and claim it for our own, which is exactly what they do.

 The Levite says, Hey, what are you doing? And they say, well, come with us. First of all, we're taking all your master's shrines and ephod. Why don't you just join us? 

J.R.: Yeah. He's not going to be able to pay you after this. So I might as well stick with the, you know, what is it? If you can't beat them, join them. 

David: Yeah, that's right. Your master's about to be broke, but we can offer you some more secure employment here, right? 

J.R.: Make your decision based off of that. 

David: And it's so interesting because. The priest is the one who said, "go in peace, the Lord is with you," right?

So it's almost like the priest unwittingly put his stamp of approval on this whole thing where they plunder Micah's house and then basically take the priest with them, right? 

J.R.: Right, right. Again, it's just a sequence of events of this is what happens when everybody does what's right in their own eyes.

David: Yeah, exactly.

J.R.: I mean, it's like they [00:30:00] say it at the beginning. And then through these next couple chapters, you just see it and you're like, Oh yeah, that's what happens when that happens. You don't get this wonderful diversity of ideas. You just have this completely un morality without any foundation, and it goes a hundred different directions, right?

Right. And it just leads to chaos. You've got the priestly class that's going to the highest bidder. You've got the Danites that don't have a territory. So they're scoping out their own people's territory and stealing it from them, obviously stealing the ephod. You've got this whole idea of the gods, the ephod representing the gods of that household. And so again, you've got this whole element of Yahweh, not really Yahweh, because Yahweh's not involved in this, but you've got this whole element of the Levite who's supposed to be the conduit to Yahweh for the nation versus these local gods in this house.

And so again, you know, going back to the Danites saying, do what you have to do. We know what's [00:31:00] about to happen in the context of an ephod and the gods of this house. So he's clearly not saying, hey, let's connect with the gods of this house to see if we can tie into their power or worship them or anything like that. It's just obviously about the silver that's lining the golden calf here.

David: Okay, but what you said it's kind of fascinating, because in all the previous stories, it's been Yahweh versus Dagon. It's been Yahweh versus Baal. It's been Yahweh versus Chemosh. 

Mm hmm. 

And there's little hints in 17 and 18 here, we've already talked about it, that one of the mistakes the people are making is they actually think this is from the Lord, right?

The mother at the very beginning of the story says, I'm going to give some of this silver that was returned to me, and consecrate it to the Lord. But that's not what you do. That's an improper sacrifice, right. And then you see the Levite do the same thing. Kind of bless this mission, this spy mission, and says, "Go in peace. The Lord is with you." 

But the Lord isn't with him. [00:32:00] Everything about this story here says, Society is breaking down. No one is doing what they're supposed to be doing. When you said that, it's almost like the God that Yahweh is fighting here is this false notion that, that what, that Yahweh is actually involved.

J.R.: Yes. To go back to this improper orientation to God, it's always been God versus the external enemy's God. Right. And here it's an internal problem. To let you know that the problem is not the Philistines or the Amalekites, it is our own people. We're disintegrating from within. 

David: Yeah, that's interesting. It's almost like this is the worst problem, the false god is within, it's within the households, and they don't recognize it. 

J.R.: Right. Give me Dagon. Give me Yahweh versus Dagon. Don't give me this internal mess where we're not hearing from God, and we're splintering off into all these different directions.

David: At least I can recognize Dagon, right? At least I can recognize [00:33:00] that's not Yahweh, that's an idol of Baal, right? Right. But all throughout these chapters here, people think they're connected with Yahweh, but they're not. Even back to the very end of chapter 17 where the guy says, "Now Yahweh will bless me" and what happens?

Yeah, his shrine is plundered. His priest is taken And that's the result of this false sense of security of everything is right now with Yahweh when really the, what, the foreign god has come inside now. 

J.R.: Right, yeah. 

David: That's really interesting. 

J.R.: Yeah, we've opened the door and now the foreign god is inside.

David: Right. All right, so to finish out this part of the story, there's little verses that crack me up. And one of those is verse 23, because, Micah realizes what's happened. They've plundered his shrine, they've taken his priest, and verse 23 says, Micah goes after them and he says to them, "What's the matter with you?" Right? What's the matter with you that you called out your men to fight?

J.R.: Yeah. Dude, what are you doing? Which is funny because what he's appealing is to is their [00:34:00] own morality. But again, when you're doing what's right in your own eyes, the response that the Danites give him is basically, yeah, what are you going to do about it? Yeah, exactly. It's you versus our entire 600 armed men. And so, yep, sorry, sucks to suck. 

David: In fact, verse 24, they respond and say, how can you ask, what's the matter with you. You lost. We won. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Sure. And that's what happens when everyone's doing right in their own eyes, you know, right? Hey, you can't steal from me. What, what are you going to do about it?

J.R.: Well, it's just a, it's a common argument debate that happens today. It's this arguing over morality, and Micah thinks it's obvious. Hey, wait a second. You can't just come in here and take this. And the response is who says, who says I can't? 

Yeah. What are you going to do about it? So again, yeah, just the further breakdown of the nation of Israel into tribalism. 

Right, right. Because all that's okay. All that's okay in tribalism. 

David: Yeah. If there are no laws, if there are no rules, if we define everything by what's right in my [00:35:00] eyes, then hey, I just did what was right in my eyes.

And in fact, your own priest said it was fine. Cleared it with God, right? 

J.R.: Right. Yeah. I wish they would have said that. I wish they would have made that clear. 

David: That would have been a good piece to write into this narrative here, is the priest actually says that and they go, Hey, this was blessed by your own priest, so take it up with him."

J.R.: Of course, the Levite walking away with the Danites is image enough that, wow, I got sold out here. Yeah. The wave, the subtle wave. See ya. I appreciate it. Don't worry about the ten silver coins that you owe me from last year. Just call this even.

David: Yeah. And so then the end of this chapter is they took what Micah had made, they took all his money, and they took the priest, and they go on to a town called Laish. Now this is another interesting, against a people at peace and secure. Right. Alright, and we've run into this again. It's a false sense of peace and security, right? 

J.R.: Right, well, you know, again, how much detail do we go in? But these two towns were mentioned earlier. They went through [00:36:00] and previously in the chapter, they noticed that this was a peaceful people. And the Danites sort of just, went through. And then on the way back, it hits them. Yeah. Hey, you remember those people that just let us walk in their village and they were welcoming. Yeah. They were offering to cook us dinner and Hey, feel free to stay the night. You know, that seems like a town ripe for the picking. 

David: They were led by 30 men on 30 donkeys.

J.R.: Yeah, that's exactly right. Perfect imagery. 

David: They are right for the picking. Here is a town that has a false sense of peace and security, and they were ripe for the picking. They were naive, right? They were willfully blind about what was at stake here.

J.R.: Right, right. So they set up shop, and they kill everybody in that village. 

And then it culminates in verse 29 where it says, you know, they named the city Dan after their tribe. But the name of the city used to be called Laish as a way of saying, yeah, you remember that town Laish that you guys have talked about in Joshua? 

David: In case you forgot the backstory. 

J.R.: What is it? Istanbul is Constantinople. 

David: Oh [00:37:00] yeah. Yeah. Byzantium. 

J.R.: Yeah. Even the old New York was once New Amsterdam. 

David: That's right. Here's the story behind how this became Dan. That's really what this is getting at here.

J.R.: Right. They went in there and just bullied the Laishians out and set up shop there. 

David: Yeah. I wonder how that goes into like the city slogan or something. You know, the city of Dan. Where suckers get overrun, or something like that. 

J.R.: You completely got danned It means you weren't paying attention. You had a false sense of security. 

David: Okay, so this story ends where it basically says this is how Dan came to be. There they set up the idol that Micah had created. The sons were priests for the tribe of Dan, and it basically ends this section by saying they continued to use the idol Micah had made and all the time that the house of God was in Shiloh. Okay, so that's an important verse right there. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: Right, because this is one of the first times we're told specifically the house of God is in Shiloh. 

J.R.: [00:38:00] Which, that means that's the location of the Ark of the Covenant. 

David: That's the location of the Ark of the Covenant. Right. That's where the Levites should have been.

J.R.: That's right. 

David: That's where proper worship and sacrifice should have been taking place. And so again, just like the Levite, I think this verse is supposed to clue you in to go, oh yeah, what happened to the Ark of the Covenant? What happened to Shiloh? What happened to the whole structure of worship that this nation was supposed to be engaged in?

J.R.: Right. Exactly. Yeah, and so this chapter sort of comes to an end, and we start another story, but it's interesting that we have chapter 17 and 18 is about a Levite that, oh yeah, what happened to those guys? And it ends with, oh yeah, what happened to the Ark? 

David: Shiloh, what happened to that?

J.R.: Right, and then in verse 19 we just start off another story of another certain Levite. And so it's this repetition and it goes back to what we were saying, is the Levites, they were missing, and this is kind of confirmation, here's another story about another Levite, [00:39:00] who 

David: Right, yeah.

J.R.: We're supposed to wonder where have the Levites been? 

David: Yeah, as if it's confirmation that we're on the right track here, verse 1 of chapter 19 says, "Again, in those days Israel had no king." So we're going to start a new story. 

But it is linked to the previous one because the next phrase says, "Now a Levite, who lived in a remote area, took a concubine from Bethlehem in Judah."

So now we're going to talk about the Levites some more, right? Alright, and this is a crazy story. 

J.R.: Oh, yeah, this is chapter 19. This is the wild ride that we were talking about earlier. 

Well, we can say that it starts with another kind of just casual mention that he has his concubine with him, right?

David: Yeah, so it mentions that he has a concubine, and I did some reading on that phrase. It doesn't mean really anything is fishy. Just means, at least from what I read, that she is a woman basically of lower status. What did you dig up about this [00:40:00] idea?

J.R.: Well, I hear, I just hear concubine and I'm thinking, oh, here's a woman that's not his wife. 

David: An improper relationship. 

J.R.: Right, and the Levites were allowed to marry, so they didn't take a vow of celibacy or anything like that. But, you know, when I see concubine, yes, you're right, if it was his proper wife, they would obviously have said that.

David: Yeah, and I think that's what it's supposed to convey. It's not really anything illicit, but it is kind of an improper match, you might say. 

J.R.: Yeah, not necessarily saying, oh, this guy had a woman on the side that his wife didn't know about. Yeah, it's not that type of sexual innuendo. It's more that it's just not the proper relationship of man and wife. 

David: Right. Not quite proper. Especially maybe for a Levite. Maybe that's the point. Okay. Yeah. But it's not like this illicit thing. What we read in Gideon, I think. that, I think Gideon has a mistress in another town. Yeah, because his son right ends up wrecking the whole 

J.R.: RIght, from the mistress. Yeah, from the mistress, right? 

David: Yeah. So I don't think it's [00:41:00] anything like that. So anyway, he asked this concubine and again, we're just kind of so many of these stories when you first read them, you just go, what does this have to do with anything? Then the little clues pull it all together. So ...

J.R.: They seem a little disjointed, but you're right. It ties together in in a big way. 

David: And maybe a key that this wasn't a proper match, verse two says, "but she was unfaithful to him." And so then she leaves and she goes back to her parents home. And she's there for four months. Now verse three, it actually does refer to this Levite as her husband. So again, it's not like illicit thing, but maybe an improper match. But he is her husband here. So he goes back to the in-laws house to try and get his wife back, right? His concubine. So he takes some servants and he goes to his father in-law's house.

J.R.: Yeah, and here is this kind of this weird detail about the father in law greeting him and basically saying, stay with me for three days, which is the proper - 

David: [00:42:00] Yeah, it's the law of hospitality, right? 

J.R.: Right the proper law of hospitality. 

David: Yeah that you would be expected someone who's behaving correctly should offer three days of hospitality basically. 

J.R.: Right. Then you go into verse five and it's just kind of this weird drawn out story of, you know, on the fourth day, they packed up, they were ready to go, but the father says, no, no, stay and eat breakfast, right? And then they sat and they said, okay, that's fine. We'll eat breakfast with you. And then he says, well, you know, now look, it's lunchtime, stay here. And then you know, let's break out the drinks into the evening and well, now the sun's going down. So, it sounds like trying to leave mom and dad's house. Did you run into this? You were a little bit closer but yeah, when I left, it was always like, well, just stay. Let's see, we'll take you to eat breakfast. And then of course we'll take you to eat lunch. 

David: It's the Southern goodbye, which I will readily admit. I do not have a lot of patience for Southern goodbyes. The Southern goodbye, if you're not familiar is when you announce if you're whoever you're staying with [00:43:00] you go, well, I really need to hit the road and two hours later, you're still trying to leave. 

J.R.: Desperately trying. Yeah, get out of there. Yes. So the three days was the proper I'm out of time for hospitality and he ends up staying for what, five?

David: I think five days. Yeah. And every verse is like he tried to leave again and his father in law said, no, no, no. Here's another reason why you should stay, which one thing I read that I thought was interesting is the father-in-law is probably, look, he knows his daughter left her husband. And maybe was unevenly matched. And maybe the father-in-law is going out of his way to try to repair this relationship, right? 

J.R.: Yeah, yeah. 

David: And, you could see that. If the details of the story are conveying what we think they're conveying. My daughter blew this opportunity. And I'm trying everything I can to salvage it, right? To salvage her marriage, basically. 

J.R.: Right, right. So you kind of see this father in law's persistent hospitality, but it can kind of also be seen as maybe excessive and maybe even a little bit [00:44:00] suspicious. I don't know. It was just one of those things that I read several verses of it and you're like, huh, why are they going into this much detail that he stayed this long?

Right. Right. It didn't seem necessary. Of course, then what happens, you know, it'll make a little bit sense here, but anyway, what we decided is that this is a example of overhospitality, maybe if that's a word being contrasted with what they're about to run into in this, next town, right?

David: Right. I think we determined that what happens next actually helps. It's almost a bit of a narrative signal that if you see a character in a film who says, okay, it's time to leave. He goes out and he has a flat tire, so he has to stay another day. And then the guy says, well, you know, you can't go now cause it's heavy traffic. So why don't you stay another day? One thing that kind of narrative plot would be conveying to you is he's being delayed and it's going to result in something. This is going to matter later, right? Right. [00:45:00]

J.R.: Yeah, if you're reading a book or watching a movie and it takes time to show these oddball details of the flat tire and can't get the car started. The watcher or the reader is going to sit there and say, yeah, this is not good. There's something about this moment that's going to come back and haunt them. 

David: Right. And that's exactly what we see in this story. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: So he finally breaks away from the father-in-law, right? His wife's with him now, and they set out. And really the idea that you get because of these delays is he's in a hurry, right? This now becomes a hurried trip, and they make some unwise decisions, right? 

J.R.: Yeah, they're a couple days late, and so we gotta make up some time somehow. So, yeah, they make some unwise decisions. But again, it's just this idea of these, what seem like unnecessary verses explaining this whole process, is, I think, communicating the idea of fate. You know, , that's kind of the way I read that.

David: Yeah. Yeah. He kind of, yeah, something. There are other, yeah, so we talked about this. So there are other forces behind the [00:46:00] scene that are going to basically force what happens next. Right. Right. It, it would be a way to say that. Yes. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah. This is not just a random story that they're giving unnecessary details. It's communicating the idea of, okay, the fates were involved here and, here's how this goes down. Right. Right, so they have this conversation about should we go here and should we go there, and we don't have to go into the details, but basically they kind of argue about, hey, let's go to this town, and he's like, no, we don't want to go there, they're not friendly to our people. 

David: Right, so one interesting thing to take note of is, he says we can't go to this town because basically they're not part of Israel. Right. So we have to go to the next town.

J.R.: No, no, I'm glad you said that. 

David: Maybe it goes back to this theme of false security, right? We can't go there because it's dangerous. We have to keep going because that's where we're going to find safety, right?

J.R.: Right. We don't want to go stay with the outsiders because who knows how they'll treat us. Yes, exactly. Let's go stay with our people and then of course what ends up happening is, yeah, that was the worst mistake. Yes. Again, [00:47:00] communicating the idea that the problem is internal. It's not a problem of the outsider coming in, the Philistines, coming in to decimate the people and take what's not theirs. It's internal rot that is being communicated in this part of the narrative. 

David: Right, that's exactly right. It's meant to communicate that the problem is not outside anymore, it's internal. Because they avoid the outsider to go on to a city, because these are our people, and then what happens in this city is a tragedy and that's what we're going to get into next.

J.R.: Yeah, so here's where things get crazy. 

David: Yeah, here's where things get crazy. All right. So they get to Gibeah. This is where he wanted to get because again, this is the insiders, right? This is supposed to be safe. So the sun's setting because they get there late again. So that sets up they were in a hurry. They've been delayed, right? And no one will take them in. Finally a guy who is working outside of the town comes in and he said, Why are you guys sitting in the town square? You can't stay here, right? Come to my house. 

J.R.: What in the world are you doing [00:48:00] out here? 

David: Yeah, which is kind of the first clue that you're not as safe as you think you are, right? It's that false sense of peace and security. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah, if you're standing on a park bench and somebody comes up to you and says what in the world are you doing here? You're not safe here. You might look around say, I'm from out of town. I don't know. I'll follow you. Fair enough, if you say it's unsafe I'm going with you. 

David: Yeah. All right, so they go to the old man's house That's how it refers to them. He took them into his house. He fed his donkeys washed their feet. Everything appears now safe But then, verse 22, while they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Now remember, they bypassed the outsider to go to the safety of the insider, which, to your point then, the wicked men of the city represent the internal rot.

J.R.: Right. 

David: Right, this is all internal now. 

J.R.: Right. And as soon as you read this, they start beating on the door. They say bring out the man who you brought yeah into your house and this [00:49:00] sounds a whole lot like what?

David: This rings of Sodom and Gomorrah. 

J.R.: It's just so clear the same thing parallels It's almost word for word exactly what happened it's kind of incredible.

David: Well, yeah, It's hard to not see that they wrote this intentionally to mirror Sodom and Gomorrah. I think as if to say, things had gotten so bad internally, right, we're not talking about the outsiders, that really, we were no better than Sodom and Gomorrah. 

J.R.: Right, we're replaying this whole Sodom and Gomorrah drama. Right. Within our own borders. That's exacltly right. 

David: Yeah, because that's exactly what happens, right? Same exact thing in Sodom and Gomorrah. Bring out your guest because we want to have our way with him, right? Right. And the man of the house is, you know, he's horrified. This is very difficult for us to hear because, he says "He's a guest in my house. Don't be so vile. Look, here is my daughter and his concubine." So it's interesting because he [00:50:00] says look take my daughter and he says take the man's concubine. Which is interesting. I missed this the first time around He actually offers the Levites concubine, right? 

J.R.: Right his well his virgin daughter and the Levites concubine. Yes, that's right. 

David: "And do whatever you wish. But as for this man, do not do such an outrageous thing." I think we have to pause here because this is really hard to stomach from our perspective. Yeah. Why in the world? Because if a guest came to my house, you know, and a mob said, hey bring the guest out, I'm not gonna offer my family.

J.R.: Right. I'm going to look at it. It's down to you or my daughter. Sorry, dude. Time to go. Time to pack it up. 

David: Hospitality is expired. You can hit the road again. 

J.R.: That's right. You don't have to go home, but you have to leave here. 

David: Right. But when you understand the ancient law of hospitality, it really is that extreme, right? A guest in your house can't be harmed, shouldn't be harmed, under [00:51:00] any circumstance. It's almost a sacred thing. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: And so that's what you have to keep in mind. It doesn't make it any easier to stomach what happens in this story. But that's basically what it's conveying.

J.R.: Well also, when you're looking at it mythically, you can read into this and see they're clearly retelling the Sodom & Gomorrah drama. And one of the ways you know that they're doing that is he says, here's my virgin daughter and his concubine. And later we find out what happens to the concubine, but the virgin daughter is just never mentioned again.

And so that is a bit of an indication to me that maybe this is not to be taken literal word for word that this is what the master of the house did. Maybe this is more of a narrative of retelling the story of Sodom and Gomorrah as opposed to here's exactly what happened, right?

David: Yeah, yeah. 

J.R.: Does that make any sense? I mean, they're clearly trying to tell the Sodom and Gomorrah story.

David: No, I think that makes sense and it's one of the things we've stressed throughout this whole series is you have to understand that when you're reading this mythically, this isn't a journalistic [00:52:00] account of everything that happened. They're conveying something larger. And so when you get to this, it's so clearly linked to Sodom and Gomorrah that to your point. You can't always tell that this is exactly what went down, because at this point, we're just retelling what Sodom and Gomorrah, right? 

J.R.: Not that it makes it any less disgusting and vile. 

David: Oh yeah, yeah. But yes, at this point, the details is more meant to mirror Sodom and Gomorrah, I think is your point, than actually what may have happened on that particular evening. 

J.R.: Nonetheless, the concubine is basically forced out the door.

David: Yep, so the two women are forced out so that the guest, so that hospitality is upheld, and, as unpleasant as it is, Basically, everything that you feared would happen, actually happens. Same thing in Sodom and Gomorrah right? The crowd has their way. It says when morning came, and they opened the door, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hand on the threshold. There's something there with that hand on the threshold, too. 

J.R.: [00:53:00] Right. 

David: I'm not quite sure what it means, but I think something like the threshold represents the border between chaos and order. And it's almost like her placing her hand on the threshold, she was so - What would you say? 

J.R.: What, that it's symbolic of - Well, what I would have said is that it's just symbolic of the concubine reaching back for her family. On the surface, it's a clear image of somebody who was desperate to get back into the safety of the house. 

David: Yeah, the obvious one is she was reaching to get back to the safety of the house. 

J.R.: Right, but you're saying that the deeper meaning is that symbolically she had her hand on the threshold of what? 

David: Yeah I haven't quite unpacked it yet. But the order was supposed to be the safety of the city, right? The chaos is outside the city. In this case, this is within Israel. The chaos was outside of the threshold in a place that was supposed to be safe. 

J.R.: Yeah, the chaos was in the city of the Israelites. You know, again, the internal rot. The problem was the city within Israel. And that, yes, she was [00:54:00] trying to get back to the safety of the house. 

David: Verse 28, oddly, there's no easy way to translate it. Yeah, this is another one, man. It's just oddly cold, but the Levite says to her, "Get up, let's go." So, this brutal thing has just happened and he's like, Hey, it's time to go. But there's no answer, clearly she's dead, right? So, he puts her on the donkey and he sets out for home.

Okay, so this is where the story gets more bizarre. When he reached home, he took a knife and he cut up his concubine, limb by limb, into twelve parts. And sent them to all the areas of Israel. 

J.R.: I believe this is where I got out my phone and texted you and said Dude, have you read chapter 19? What in the world? 

David: I never heard this story in sunday school 

J.R.: This was not on the flannel graph. 

David: Yeah, so what the heck is going on here right? Now clearly he cuts her up into 12 pieces. Okay, there's the number 12, right? 

J.R.: Yeah, for obvious reasons. 

David: For obvious reasons. So, I think it's [00:55:00] something like every part of Israel is going to have to come to terms with what just happened. This horrific event that just took place in this city that was supposed to represent safety within Israel.

J.R.: Right. It becomes a tangible example of this is something we have to deal with. This is not going away. 

David: Right. verse 30, the last verse of this chapter. Everyone who saw it said such a thing has never been seen or done, except in Sodom and Gomorrah. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: Right? Just imagine, we must do something. And that's the whole point of this act, right? We must do something. I think that's a key phrase. Oh yeah. To end this chapter. 

J.R.: This is a pivotal story, and we talked about this earlier. You could say 9/11, you could put any type of major historical moment. We even talked about the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand, right?

This is one of those touchstone moments that the nation will look back on and say, this was that moment where the light bulb went off over all of our heads and said, something is horribly wrong. And this is not just a [00:56:00] one off. This is something where everybody seemed to look at it and say, this is indicative of a bigger problem or maybe even people look at it and said, I knew something like this was going to happen. 

David: Yeah. No, we talked about the power as gruesome as it is. It's more than a rumor or it's more than, Hey, did you hear what happened? When a body part shows up in your city presumably maybe a Herald who says, Here's the story behind this leg that I'm holding. It makes you come face to face with it. It's real. It's not just a rumor, right? It's not just a little side story that now you can get on with your life and go home.

J.R.: Yeah. No, that's interesting I'm glad you said that because again, we read this and like this is disgusting who in the world cuts up there Oh, yeah, this is their wife, right? But you're right. I think narratively, what's going on is this can't be ignored here. It is. It's right in front of you. You can't ignore the story. You know, we've all heard stories that our response has been, well, I'm sure there's another side to this story, [00:57:00] right? 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: Well, I'd like to hear the other person's part of the story to put it all together because I'm not sure you're being dramatic or something like that. But this is right in front of him. There's no way to ignore it. 

David: Right, we have a phrase every now and then if you saw something you didn't want to see. You'd say, I can't unsee that. I think that applies here, right? Yeah, you can't unsee what you just saw in the town square earlier today. You can't go home and pretend like everything is fine. You can't ignore it you have to do something. And that's actually what we see unfold here in the last two chapters of Judges.

J.R.: Yeah. Every once in a while, a story comes up that you just look at and say, I don't know what to do with this. You may think of something like the Rodney King videos back when we were younger. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: That, you know, it doesn't matter what I think about the police. But I see that video I'm like, I don't know exactly - It's one of those things, after watching the video, your mind has trouble saying I'm not sure that there's a rational explanation to this.

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: Right, you know, this is just too much. 

David: [00:58:00] Okay, so, there's the power of watching the video. Not to get off Rodney King, but another example is, I think there was an NFL player who was rumored that he beat his girlfriend, right?

J.R.: Oh, oh, Ray Rice. 

David: Okay, so, every now and then, unfortunately, you hear that. Well, the difference here was there was a video. Yes, that's a great example. And you watch the video, and you go I can't unsee what I just saw, right? This NFL, built like a rock guy hitting his girlfriend. 

J.R.: And the second you saw it, I immediately thought that dude's done. 

David: Yeah, this is not going away. 

J.R.: Right, there is no, he said, she said this is what it is, yeah. 

David: This is done. And it was, it was end of his career. 

J.R.: Oh yeah. No questions asked. 

David: And partially because you saw the video and I think chopping up the body parts and sending them, I think had the same effect of something like that.

J.R.: That's the ancient way of saying, here's the video. You tell me what happened. 

David: Yeah. Right. We can debate about whether this was justified this or that he said, she said, but look, here's the video and [00:59:00] you go, yeah, that's hard for me to watch. Right? 

J.R.: Right. . There's no other explanation. So, yeah, so it goes into Judges 20 where this is the response. 

David: Yeah. So this is really interesting. And again, taken by itself. This is a really odd story. 

All right. So Judges, chapter 20 is a very long story, but I'm going to try and summarize it real quick. And then we can talk about some of the important details. So verse one says, "Then all Israel from Dan to Beersheba." Interesting, it mentions Dan, right? Right. 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. 

David: "And all the land of Gilead came together as one and assembled before the Lord in Mitzvah." Okay, so now this is important because this is the first time you see the tribes actually gathering and it specifically says as one. I think the phrase is like as one man almost. 

J.R.: Yeah, assembled as one man. That's what my translation says. 

David: Okay, yeah, so this is very important because this is the first time we see Israel acting like a nation, right? So they [01:00:00] have this assembly where everyone's represented and they say we have to do something about the tribe of Benjamin because this is where that happened, right?

So they go through and they recount the story, right? The Levite says, This is what happened. I want to tell my story. Again, they're all horrified, and they say, We have to do something about it. And they basically go to war with the tribe of Benjamin. Because they basically go to Benjamin and say, Look, you got, you got some splaining to do, right?

What happened here? And Benjamin's response is, basically the Benjaminites don't listen. They just said, quit bothering us. Go away. Again, they still represent maybe that ...

J.R.: the tribalism of everyone doing what's right in their own eyes. 

David: Exactly. I think that's what that represents. 

J.R.: Kind of to go back to the Danites, what are you gonna do about it, Micah? 

David: Yeah, and so the rest of the chapter they basically wage war. They're unsuccessful a couple of times, and then they finally have success, and they defeat the Benjaminites, right? Right. They bring them to justice, basically [01:01:00] wipe out most of the men of Benjamin. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: It's funny because the chapter, it's quite a long chapter that goes through the size of the army, and who was struck down, and how many were left, but that's basically what happens in Chapter 20. Now, we should probably point out some of the details in there just to keep the narrative flowing. 

J.R.: Yeah. Well, it's totally worth reading, we've said this in previous podcasts. Please read this. Read it for yourself so you can kind of get your own narrative. Because out of necessity, we have to skip the details of the civil war that's going on. But yeah, they basically are drawn out and they got into their city and destroyed their city, killed everybody. Right? 

David: Right. Yeah. 

J.R.: I say that because it's going to play into chapter 21. But one of the things worth mentioning among all this kind of tactics of drawing the Benjamites out of the city is that they kind of came into the back gate of the city and wiped everybody out in the city of the Benjamites and all that's left - kind of this fast forward to verse 47 - all that's left is that there's [01:02:00] 600 men. And they're out in the wilderness looking back at their burning city, and they're like, we've been defeated. You know, there's nothing we can do now.

All of our men and the beasts, everything that they've found has been burnt. And so that leads into Judges 21, where the Benjamites are like, well, our entire tribe has been decimated and so now we're down to 600. What are we going to do? 

David: Right. Yeah, so that 600 is an important detail.

There's one more thing I want to point out, though, before we move on to that. Because in verse 28, they've had a couple of setbacks against the Benjaminites, right? The Benjaminites don't go easy. And in verse 27, it says, "Then all the Israelites inquired of the Lord." And again, there's this parenthesis. It says, "In those days, the Ark of the Covenant of God was there."

J.R.: Right. 

David: Okay. Right. Now, again, that's supposed to tell you something: wait, whatever happened to the Ark of the Covenant? 

J.R.: Right. 

David: Now at this point, they're in Bethel. Okay, verse 26 [01:03:00] says they were in Bethel. Now, I'll admit it's a little confusing to me because we were told that the tabernacle is in Shiloh, but the Ark can be moved. So right, maybe it's something where they moved it. I don't know. 

J.R.: Well, again, back in verse 31, in the previous chapter, it says that the house of God was at Shiloh. Now, that doesn't specifically say the Ark was there. True, yeah. But I think it's just another example of this disjointed ...

David: Nothing is really supposed be right. 

J.R.: Nothing is where it's supposed to be, be here's the House of God, but the Ark is in Bethel. And maybe it's kind of just an example of how fractured the nation had become. 

David: But back to what this is telling us then, because it says the Israelites went there and inquire of the Lord. And then there's this little footnote almost that says the Ark of the Covenant of God was there, and Pheneus the son of Eliazar the son of Aaron was ministering before it. Again, that's the first time you hear of, like, a high priest doing his job. 

J.R.: Right. Doing what he's supposed to be doing.

David: And The important thing here to note [01:04:00] is Israel comes together for the first time in this entire book of Judges and starts to engage, I would say, in proper sacrifice, right? They go to where the ark is. They inquire of the priest, and they say, what are we doing wrong, basically? And the Lord responds and says, "Go, for tomorrow I will give them into your hands." Now there's no assuming that hey, God's with you, don't worry about it. It says the Lord himself says, I'm going to give them into your hands. 

J.R.: So again. Unlike the Levite of Micah, who just sort of just said, off the cuff.

David: Who speaks presumptuously. Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, cool. God's good with you, you know. 

J.R.: Go for it.

David: So, I think that's one little detail that's important because throughout this long narrative chapter 20, you're seeing the Israelites starting to act like a nation, properly functioning, right? Properly oriented to God. Making the proper sacrifices. 

J.R.: Yeah. It's still a bit of a mess, but you're starting to see things coalesce and come together. 

David: Okay, so now we get to 21 and kind of back to that pin of that 600 Benjaminite [01:05:00]warriors who disappeared. I think they were out in the wilderness for four months, right?

J.R.: Right, right. Here's another weird chapter. As if 19 wasn't weird enough. Here we go. 

David: Yeah, it's all been weird, so why not end the whole book of Judges on a really weird story. 

J.R.: Exactly. Which is why you don't hear many sermons about this. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: Because if I'm a pastor, I don't know what I'd do with this on a Sunday morning, right?

David: Right. So verse one says, all the men of Israel ended up taking an oath and said, not one of us will give his daughters in marriage to a Benjaminite. But then they realized the implication of this oath. 

J.R.: Yeah, well, it's another, and we've seen this pattern too, the unnecessary oaths that are taken that end up coming back to bite them.

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: Right? 

David: So maybe they didn't think this one through. 

J.R.: Yeah. And you know, I don't know how much that they discussed with the priests or the Levites, or if they actually asked God if this was a good oath to take. I don't know. I mean, it's hard to say if it's rash or not, but it appears that way to me.

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: None of us are going to give our daughters to the Benjaminites, which we [01:06:00] remember all of the tribe of Benjamin was destroyed except for these 600 men. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So that, that poses a simple math problem. Right. You know, you got 600 men and no women. Now what? 

David: Yeah.

J.R.: And everybody committing not to give their daughters over there, so now what do we do? 

David: Right, so everyone's already vowed that, hey, our daughters are not going to be aligned with the Benjaminites. But it does present a problem, and in verse 6, it says, "Today one tribe is cut off from Israel." Okay, so it's almost like it's dawning on them, here's the problem. If you remove Benjamin, they're still stuck at 11 tribes. And I think that's a fascinating pattern through these last chapters here, right? They seem to be stuck at 11. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah, and it goes back to the 1,100 coins. It's like, why specify that, and it is, it's kind of this pattern of, hey, we're almost there, but we can't quite pull it together.

David: Yeah, we're stuck at 11 and we can't quite get to 12. And the implication through all this is, again, [01:07:00] It's supposed to be 12. You know, we talked about if Jesus had 11 disciples, we'd go, no, no, no, it's supposed to be 12. We got to fix this, right. It's the same thing here. Today, one of the tribes is cut off, so we're stuck at 11.

So they came up with a pretty creative solution here, right? 

J.R.: A little bit weird, but yes, creative. But notice in verse 10, it says, so the congregation sent 12,000 of their bravest men. So it's almost like the reader should say, okay, here's the 12 that we're looking for. 

David: Okay. Yeah. That's interesting. So there's the 12. 

J.R.: Right. So we've got this repetition of 11 up to this point, this incomplete 12, but then they sent out 12,000 men. So as you're reading this, you do kind of have this highlighted number that says, okay, maybe this is where things come together.

David: Yes. 

J.R.: And it's certainly unconventional, but it does come together this way. 

David: Now, this gets into this weird battle because it's almost this double meaning of there's a tribe missing. Because when they took stock of who was at this assembly, [01:08:00] it says no one from Jabesh Gilead had come to the assembly..

J.R.: Right. Oh, that's right. Yes. 

David: And so that's who these 12,000 fighting men go out and attack. They are determined to put to the sword, everyone living there, including the women and children. Everyone who is not a virgin. Right. And that's, important. So, first of all, this is a little bit difficult to unpack here, but there's one city that's not participating. 

J.R.: Right, so they're not necessarily a tribe. 

David: Right, a city. But just a city their response almost seems like an overreaction. But you have to see the importance that this is preventing them from being 12, right? Because this one city they didn't bother to show up, right?

So they're not doing their part. And you could say the nation of Israel had reached a place where they say we have to come together as 12 under Yahweh. So as a punishment now, they're gonna go attack this city. Kill every woman who's not a virgin and all the males. So what this [01:09:00] leaves you with is a convenient solution because now you're just left from this city with a bunch of young women unmarried.

J.R.: Right. And again, on the surface, it's like, golly, what is happening here? This is so, this is awful. But when you read the symbology of it, you're right. It's a twofold answer. So go back to Gideon. We're arbitrarily getting rid of these people that drink water a certain way.

Right. Yeah. So we're getting rid of a problem, which is this city that didn't come to the request of the other tribes, and we're using their young women to bring the Benjaminites back into the tribe of Israel. Yes. This is how we're going to solve this problem. 

David: Yeah, and you have to see the importance of getting back to 12 for any of this to make sense.

J.R.: Right, right. Because if you read it on the face, you're like going, this is awful. I mean, how is this any better than, right? You know, this is a terrible way to solve this problem. But the symbolism is so clear, is we're getting rid of the people who weren't united with us [01:10:00] to begin with, and then we're uniting the people that we ostracize through this vow that we made. 

David: Right. And so this chapter ends by them realizing we somehow have to make Benjamin whole again. But we've already said none of our daughters will marry this remnant of 600 men.

So they come up with a good solution to this problem, right? We have A) the remnant of the Benjaminites over here and we have B) The remnant of this city that refused to participate, right? We have these virgin daughters over here. And it says, I think you just pointed out, it said they brought them back to Shiloh, the young women.

And then it occurs to them, hey, this is a way around our vow. Right? Because we said we weren't going to give any of our daughters to the Benjaminites, but now we have, you could say, these orphaned young women. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: But, yeah, in order Do them a favor. Yeah, yeah. So in order to not break their [01:11:00] vow they come up with this funny solution.

They said, look, there's an annual festival in the Lord in Shiloh, which lies north of Bethel. And to your point now, the women are in Shiloh. So they instructed the Benjaminites and said "Go hide in the vineyards and when the young women of Shiloh, when they come out and join in the dancing rush to the vineyards and seize one of them to be your wife." Right. "And then return to the land of Benjamin." Now here again, okay, this sounds like an asinine solution to our modern mind, right? 

J.R.: Yeah. You're like, how is this any better than what happened to the Levite's concubine. 

David: . But, keep in mind, this is really important. They are trying to make the tribe of Benjamin whole again, so that they can get to 12. 

J.R.: Right. While keeping their vow. 

David: While keeping their vow Yes. And so that's what happens. And it's funny because verse 22 is one of those funny verses. "When their fathers or brothers complained to us we will say, 'do us a favor.'" You know, hey, help us out. 

J.R.: Yeah, do me a solid here.

David: Look, just look the other way this one time. 

J.R.: [01:12:00] Yeah, we got a plan here, , just trust me on this. Go with it. Go with it. Yeah, that's right. 

David: And so that's what happened, right? So the young women are out dancing, and each one of these remnant of the Benjaminites, they rush in to the party, and they each snatch a wife and carry her off to be his wife. And this is important, said they returned to their inheritance and rebuilt the towns and settled in them. So now, finally, we're at the end of Judges, and Israel is at twelve tribes, finally. I think it's a great way to end. 

J.R.: Oh no, it's a bizarre, it seems, like I said, the first time you read it, you're like, what in the world is happening? And then, the book ends. It ends and you're thinking, how is this a solution? But again, if you read the previous chapter as, don't get hung up with the details of what they're taking these daughters and those types of things. But if you read the symbolism of they're trying to restore Benjamin, they're trying to cut out the cancer of this city that didn't come to the aid of the rest of the nation. So [01:13:00] that's symbolism of the internal rot. We need to cut that out. And then we're going to bring them back in and we're going to restore Benjamin. If you read it with that lens, then you get to the final two verses. 

And verse 24 says, "And the people of Israel departed from there at their time, every man to his tribe and family. And they went out from there, every man to his inheritance." Yeah. So this is the first time that, Hey, we're all united. We're all going back to our tribes because now we've come together as a nation. We've solved our problem of the cities that wouldn't come to our aid that weren't part of our nation. We've brought back in the Benjaminites. And then verse 25, it has this weird verse again, because, "In those days there was no king in Israel and everyone did what was right in his own eyes." It's almost like, that's how we're going to end this. 

David: Yeah. about the time you think okay, we put a bow on this happy ending, right? Right. No, verse 25 leaves that little cliffhanger, right? Maybe there's going to be another season of this. 

J.R.: Yeah. You're exactly right. But it's just [01:14:00] that same problem now we are united, but still in those days there wasn't a King. So we have the unity of the tribes, but we don't have the central figure to unite them. And everyone is still doing what was right in his own eyes, but at least we've got the tribes reunited. At least we got the twelve tribes whole, and the curtain is drawn on the Book of Judges. 

David: Yeah, and I think that's the way to read this, is we are finally back to a complete twelve, but the structure isn't in place yet to move forward. And the structure is going to be the monarchy. Right? 

J.R.: Right. Right. 

David: They tried the whole go back to what Gideon said, you know, hey, I will not lead you, the Lord will lead you. Well, they tried that and it didn't work. So then we had the judges. Well, Deborah worked out pretty well, but it went downhill from there, right?

And then it just descends into the Civil War, and they finally get back to twelve, but the structure still isn't there. And so, as the next season comes, it's going to take the [01:15:00] monarchy to actually instill the structure that will help them get there. But even that, long term, that doesn't actually work out so well either. 

J.R.: Right. Well, that plays into the broader Biblical narrative completely. Yeah, sure. You know, as far as this chapter goes, the curtain is drawn, and at the end of it, it's like, yeah, if you thought that was messed up in the last chapter, you're right, because everyone was doing what was right in his own eyes.

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: But at least we're a nation, at least we can go back and be united in doing what is evil in the eyes of God. 

David: Yeah, we've stopped the bleeding and now we can start healing, basically. Right, right. Something like that, yeah. Hopefully. 

Alright, well, so there's some big themes here. I just want to point a couple of these out and then, you know, get your thoughts as we wrap things up here. But, I do think it's interesting that we've got, talked about these big themes, and you actually see every one of these in these last couple chapters, all right? We talked about the proper orientation to God, right?

J.R.: Right. 

David: So, finally, it [01:16:00] takes the tribes gathering at Mitzvah and Shiloh, I think properly oriented to God doing what they're supposed to do, right? We talked about the proper sacrifice, and we saw examples all through Judges of the improper sacrifice, which I neglected to mention, then the concubine who was abused and murdered, and then chopped up boy, there's no more graphic representation of an improper sacrifice.

J.R.: Yeah, that's exactly right. 

David: Right? 

J.R.: Right. 

David: But that's another example. But then it's followed by, again, making the offerings at Bethel to inquire of God. God, how do we fix this, right? So, finally, the proper sacrifice. 

And then the acceptance of responsibility. We've talked about, abdication of responsibility. But now we finally see the tribes accepting what they're supposed to do. They see the goal of, we have to get back to twelve. No matter if it takes all these crazy shenanigans to try and, you know, restore the tribe of Benjamin and all that.

And so we exceed the acceptance of [01:17:00] responsibility. And I think it's really cool, actually, how you see all these themes and then you see it tied up, finally starting to work in these last couple chapters. 

J.R.: Yeah, and it doesn't end - you know, everybody lives happily ever after. But it does end like you said, kind of in that cliffhanger fashion, wait till the next season But we can at least see how this is coming together in this messed up way, but at least we're starting to see light at the end of the tunnel, a little bit of unity in this fractured nation.

David: Right. 

J.R.: Yeah. I thought, that as a book, it kind of left me hanging at the end. I scratched my head the first time I read it and thought, wow, that's it. That's the end of it. You know, but when you see the whole arc and see the whole narrative, you see what Judges was trying to communicate on a higher level, right?

See the individual level of the hero. And we got into that in the individual stories of the judges, but you see overall, the problem of the fractured nation, the problem of everybody doing what's right in their own eyes and where that [01:18:00] leads: hyper individuality and no unity.

And so when you see them come together, again, it's not perfect. Nobody's saying that, wow, that was wonderful the way they pulled this off. But at the end of it, you do see where, okay. Fundamentally, they understand. We can't continue on in this fractured way. We have to be united, not only to keep the enemy out, but we also have to be united in cutting out the cancer within.

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: And you see this dual purpose to the nation, and it's almost like the light bulb goes off, and they do it in a messed up way, but, at the end of the day, they at least see the fundamental necessity of those two things, keeping the outsider out and keeping the inside, what, pure. 

David: Pure, yeah. 

J.R.: And connected to God, right?

David: Yeah. One last thing I'll say, because this one kind of bugged me. So we've gone through all the stories. In the book of Hebrews, chapter 11, verses 31 -34, it actually talks about these judges. So, it says, "What more shall I say? I don't have time to tell you [01:19:00] about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, and then David and Samuel,"- and then how they did all these things - "they shut the mouth of the lion they escaped the edge of the sword, whose weakness was turned to strength, and who became powerful in battle. And routed foreign armies." 

Now, I gotta tell you, after going through this story, especially, alright, the one that bugs me is Jephthah. How can the writer of Hebrews hold up Jephthah as someone who became powerful in battle and whose weaknesses was turned to strength? Right. Right, and Samson, for that matter, right?

And, I don't know how that struck you, but this one bugged me. But, if you step back, you have to see that these people are still listed as heroes because ultimately, it was messy, they were broken people, they had their weaknesses, but they ultimately conquered an enemy of Israel. Right. And that's how they could be listed as heroic.

But I don't think it's a [01:20:00] blanket statement of trying to say, hey, these are all good and virtuous people. Right. Yeah. Because they're not. 

J.R.: Right. The verse is not saying that these are the ideals. 

David: Right. 

J.R.: And it's saying, you know, at least it acknowledges those whose weakness was turned into strength. It's like we saw on the individual level, we saw so many of the weaknesses of every judge that's mentioned there. We saw their weaknesses. But through the right orientation to God, those weaknesses can actually turn into strengths. God can use all of our weaknesses. But we have to orient ourselves to him properly and give the proper sacrifices for him to turn those weaknesses into strengths.

David: Yeah. I'll admit, it doesn't really sit all that well with me after reading through it. The other thing is, he says Gideon, Barak, and Samson. I'm like, come on, what about Deborah here? 

J.R.: Deborah, man, she was top of the list for us. 

David: Yeah, tradition says Paul wrote Hebrews. I don't know, we might have to settle this one in the Afterlife. Yeah. I'm like, dude, what are you thinking here? You gotta [01:21:00] walk me through this, you know? 

J.R.: Yeah, though the love to Barak, when we read the story, Barak wouldn't even go without Deborah. 

David: Right, Deborah is clearly the hero of that story, and Barak here gets the love in Hebrew, so yeah. You know, unanswered questions.

J.R.: Ah, well, you know, patriarchal society. What do you do? This is before the women's movement.

David: Yeah, that's right. Alright, so, let's put a bow on judges. Any last thoughts on judges? 

J.R.: Ah, man, well, what I learned in reading Judges, is that Judges is a perfect example of a book that if you go to the extreme of trying to read everything literally and you miss the symbolism, this book's just not going to make sense to you. It's one of those books that I think have been helpful that I think I'll take to other primarily Old Testament books, but kind of read into the symbolism of the numbers and the details that don't always make a lot of sense, especially in the Old Testament.

It's helped shed light on the idea of reading these symbolically, mythologically, [01:22:00] and, it helps open up that layer of meaning. And when you do that, Judges really does make sense. I mean we didn't untangle every detail quite completely. But we untangled a bunch, you know, like I said, if we can make sense of the 30 donkeys and the 30, that's a win for me because I was completely lost on that for a while. 

But it's helped me read and unlock a layer of the Bible when I allow my mind to see the symbolism in it and see that the meaning behind it is almost more important than untangling every detail and whether this was right or wrong. We can get caught up with just kind of the modern day reading of, well, that doesn't seem right. 

David: Trying to make rational sense of things. Yeah. Yeah. 

J.R.: Yes. The over rationalization of the book. 

David: Right. 

J.R.: And I think when I allowed myself to put that to the side a little bit and see the symbolism, I think that's where it really became clear to me that this is the proper way to read this. Cause once you do that, it [01:23:00] makes much more sense. 

David: I would agree with that. The whole book just opens up to you. Right. Once you get over those little modern hangups that we have and just immerse yourself in the story, you start to see all these themes and it all falls into place. And yeah, I agree with that and I thoroughly enjoyed studying Judges. Which is something to say, because the first time I read through it, preparing for this, I was thinking, I don't know what the heck's going on. 

J.R.: Yeah, what are we going to go with this? Alright, so now we're going to move to Chronicles? Yeah. Leviticus, right? 

David: Yeah, now we'll talk about Leviticus. I do think I will probably read the Old Testament differently after studying Judges.

J.R.: Oh, definitely, definitely. I'll tell you what else it does, is it, breaks the cycle of me taking a verse or a paragraph and trying to say, okay, how do I apply this to my life? If you do that with Judges, you're not going to get anywhere. It's meant to be read from chapter one to chapter 21.

Right. And if you just take those individual stories of the judges, as cool as the Samson story is, or [01:24:00] the Gideon story if you take those out and try to make rational sense of it you can pull some neat themes out of it. That's fine. But you're gonna miss the overarching narrative of the entire book, and that's what it tells me.

Yeah, this was fun, man. I I really enjoyed this. 

David: Yeah, I did too.

A little housekeeping, I guess, as we wrap things up. If you're listening to us as we release these episodes, we're going to take at least one break here. And then in August, we will come back with our next series, and it will be on, What is the Gospel? I'm looking forward to that one, too. 

J.R.: Yeah, I am, too. That'll be fun. 

David: In case you're listening, we release episodes on the 1st of the month and 15th of the month, if you haven't picked up the pattern. Talk about symbolic patterns. 

J.R.: If you haven't seen the symbology of that. 

David: If you haven't seen the pattern, that's what we do. So, just as a note, sometime in August is when we'll pick up the next series. We were gonna do that for July, and then we did this bonus episode, so. 

J.R.: Dude, I need a break after this. Yeah, I know. My brain [01:25:00] hurts sometimes. 

David: And another thing I'll say is, hey, you know, we have a new way to contact us. Did you know that? 

J.R.: No, I didn't. 

David: So, in the show notes, if you, click on the show notes, expand them. You'll see a line that says, you know, got questions or comments, contacts us. We'd love to hear from you. That link is actually a new way to contact us. And it's very easy. This can't be easier. If you click on that link, it will open your text messages with a text address that will go to us. And so all you got to do is click on that link, give us a comment or question, hit send, and we will receive it.

J.R.: Ah, how cool is that? Yeah. So that's pretty cool. 

David: So. Easy way to contact us. Of course, we have the other ways. The one thing I'll say about that is that we can't respond back to you via text using that method. But, you know, if you have a question, comment, anything like that. If you do want to hear back from us personally, you can go to our website. Use a contact form. You can go to our Facebook group as well. We also have a link now [01:26:00] to a newsletter. Now, we've been sending a newsletter out. We don't spam people. But, you know, if you want to stay in contact with us that way, click on that link and there will be a little landing page. You can give us your email address.

And I will say that we try to keep our newsletter subscribers in the know first. So, that's some incentive to go ahead and subscribe to our newsletter. But those are new links you'll see in the show notes that you can use moving forward. 

J.R.: Okay. Sounds good, man. 

David: Yeah. We'll talk to you in August then. 

J.R.: All right. We'll see you.