The Gospel Announcement: What Is The Gospel?

Join Navigating An Ancient Faith as we kick off a new series exploring The Gospel Announcement! 📖✨ In this episode, we dive deep into the true meaning of the gospel, its original context, and its profound implications for the kingdom of God. 🌟 Discover various perspectives on key theological concepts like salvation and repentance. 🙏 We conclude by discussing the vital importance of aligning one's life with the gospel proclamation. 💬 

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to the Gospel Series
• 4:33 Common Perceptions of the Gospel
• 9:37 Salvation in the New Testament
• 32:37 The Gospel in Historical Context
• 41:17 The Roman Gospel and Its Implications
• 50:56 The New Testament Gospel: Proclamation and Expectations
• 58:50 Aligning with the Kingdom of God

Transcript

What is the Gospel?

David: [00:00:00] I felt a little weird of asking chat GPT how to get saved. All right, let's put it that way. 

J.R.: Yeah, well, what did it say? 

David: Hey, we are going to start a new series today, and the series we're going to start is about the Gospel Announcement, and we're going to spend four episodes talking about this idea of the Gospel. What is the kingdom of God? All these things. And the reason we're doing this really is because this is what we do at Navigating an Ancient Faith.

We like to go back to the original meaning. Because when you talk about something like the gospel, J. R. as you well know, 2, 000 years later, a word like that comes with layers and layers and layers of meaning and interpretation and experience, right? 

J.R.: Yep, a lot of baggage with it. 

David: Yeah, so we like to go back to the original, what were the original hearers, how would they have understood some of these concepts that we like to talk about, and so that's what we're gonna talk about with this gospel series.[00:01:00]

J.R.: Yeah, looking forward to it. 

David: I am too. There's a lot of cool aspects that I've learned a lot from studying this. 

J.R.: Yeah, we took a little bit of a break. What'd you do over your break? 

David: What did I do over the break? I mainly stayed close to the AC. That's what I've been doing. 

J.R.: It's been a heat wave.

David: We took a little bit of a side trip. yeah, otherwise. 

J.R.: Yeah, no, enjoyed the Judges series, but looking forward to this series as well. 

David: Yeah, this should be good. I was thinking about this series. and one of the connections that I didn't really put together is that we're going to talk about this inscription later in this episode. But this inscription was actually found at a place called Priene in Turkey. And I don't know if you remember that place, but we've been there. 

J.R.: Yes, I was just about to say, we've been there, sure. 

David: Yeah, that's right. 

J.R.: Up in the hills. 

David: Yeah, it was our Greece Turkey trip several years ago now. We were in Ephesus, but we wanted to see other ancient sites. We didn't have a car, so we did what you and I don't like to do, which is we booked a tour, right? We booked a [00:02:00] day tour. 

J.R.: No, it was really good, though. 

David: Oh, yeah, it was really interesting. So, the tour went to Priene, and it went to Miletus, which is south of Ephesus, and that's the place where the Apostle Paul actually in Acts, he stops at Miletus because he doesn't want to go all the way into Ephesus because he was in a hurry to get to Jerusalem. So that's where Miletus comes in. And then we went to Didyma. 

J.R.: They were all super unique in their own ways. I kind of get the details of all three of those jumbled up because we ran through all three of them in a day. But it was really neat. You got to see the layout They were all unique. Priene was up in the hills. Didyma was kind of down on the plains it was a really neat day I don't remember the inscription you're talking about. 

David: Okay. Well, I do vaguely remember hearing that there was a famous inscription that was found there. At the site, I don't recall anyone pointing it out or saying, Hey, this is a really important thing we've found here, but it is something that I've seen since then in books. But yeah. I do remember it was a really beautiful site way up in the [00:03:00] hills kind of a dramatic backdrop there in front of what the temple of Athena.

J.R.: Yeah, the pillars behind you, kind of a single mountain behind you. It was, yeah, it's gorgeous place. 

David: I remember the pillars had all fallen down, but they hadn't been pillaged like they do a lot of sites. They reuse the marble. But the pillars are all falling down. And it was just like someone dumped out a big jigsaw puzzle.

J.R.: And it is interesting to go to some of these sites and you can tell Well, first of all, when I go to some of these sites that are not as put together as something like Ephesus, there's a tendency to go into these architectural ruins and think, man, how come they haven't gotten further along than this?

How hard can it be? I mean, here are all the pieces, put it together. But then when you see the number of them and you go to some of the, I mean, some of these sites, Dion was huge. It was just a massive site. And that's when you can appreciate and say, yeah, there's only so many archaeologists that are qualified to come out there and put this stuff together and there's a lot of archaeological sites in Greece and other parts of the ancient world. [00:04:00] Yeah, so you have a little bit of better appreciation when you go to all these little sites, but yes, there were pillar parts scattered all over the place.

David: I remember I was thinking like, I bet most of the pieces are here and someone could reconstruct this. 

J.R.: Yeah, give me a couple of weeks. I think I could do something. 

David: I could get a couple of pieces. Be like the person, you know, someone's working on a puzzle and you walk over and look over your shoulder, go, Hey, those two pieces go together. You know, be that guy. 

J.R.: Yeah, and you're just like, man, get out of here. 

David: Oh, so anyway, I thought that was kind of a neat connection to one of the topics we're going to talk about during this series. But today we're going to talk about what is the gospel, all right? And let's just start out by talking about some ways that how most people today, I think, would define the gospel. If you stopped someone in a church and said, hey, what's the gospel? 

J.R.: Right. 

David: What are some of the common themes that would come out, right? 

J.R.: Yeah, if you're not rooted in the church, then I think you just simply associate the gospel with the Bible in general, right? You're sort of thinking, yeah, it has something to [00:05:00] do with the Bible. But if you're a churchgoer, you've probably heard plenty of times, in a sermon or something, that the word actually means the good news. 

But outside of that, I think even devout followers. don't really have a definitive idea of what the gospel is because, like you said, this word is kind of morphed over the centuries. And so we use this word in lots of different ways. I mean, you're talking about the first four books of the new Testament. Are you talking about the eyewitness narratives of the life of Jesus, or you're talking about the plan of salvation? And that's within the Church that I think there's these kind of diverse ideas behind it. So I think it's a little bit of a squishy idea even inside the Church, and certainly outside the Church.

David: Yeah, and it has become a Church word because outside of the religious context you don't hear people talking about Gospels, right? <Right.> You don't hear any of that. So I think one of the first things that people would say is that the gospel is an invitation to accept Jesus as your personal Savior, right?

J.R.: Yeah, something like that. 

David: And let's be honest. I probably would start there [00:06:00] too okay? It's an invitation to accept Jesus, right? And have to say too we're gonna talk about these are loaded religious terms depending on what your background is, it may mean something different to you. We're kind of talking from our own experience, and we're not saying that any of these are wrong either, but I want to throw that out there as well. 

J.R.: Well, to your point, it's an ancient idea. And so obviously through the centuries, different cultures are going to view that word a little bit differently. And so to assume that in our modern context, the word gospel is accurately seen the same way that they saw it 2000 years ago is a little bit, what, presumptuous? 

David: Yeah. So I would say that's the first one is it's there's an offer on the table, and it's there for you to accept. That's the gospel invitation right or a gospel message

J.R.: Yeah 

David: Yeah And I don't know the second thing I wrote down real quick as I was kind of making some notes for this series is, we've talked about this one before but I think a lot of people would say well, it's a set of [00:07:00] propositional beliefs to affirm.

J.R.: Yeah more of an equation, a little bit more of a narrow definition.

David: Right. And in this way, I think faith is really about believing the right things, you know, the gospel is A and B and C, and you have to affirm these things. And if you believe them, then you are saved, right? It's a gospel of salvation. So you are saved if you affirm these things. And again, there's an aspect where you could say, well, okay, there's some truth to that. You have to believe the right things, but is that all it is, right? And we've said on previous podcasts, I think there's much more to it than just propositional statements to believe in.

The other thing that the gospel can sometimes come across as is a sales pitch. Not offending anyone here, but this whole idea that your life can be made better if you accept A and B and incorporate these things into your life. And the gospel is an invitation to make your life better.

J.R.: Yeah, this is a little bit more of a modern take on the word. I don't think there was as much of an argument 200, 300 years ago [00:08:00] that the gospel makes your life easier. Right. I think they embraced the idea that it makes it more difficult, but, it's certainly a modern thought that, follow the gospel and your life here on earth will just be peachy keen. But that's sort of, a little bit more of a modern take on the word. 

David: Yeah, I think you're right. 

J.R.: What's the term? Prosperity gospel, that type thing? 

David: Yeah, prosperity gospel, health and wealth, the gospel will make your life better.

J.R.: Right, in the here and now. 

David: And like I said, certainly there's aspects of truth to each one of those, except maybe the idea of make your life better. Although in an eternal sense that's true also. But, none of these, I think, really get to the heart at what the gospel would have meant to someone in the first century.

When Jesus is going around proclaiming the good news, proclaiming the gospel, when the Apostle Paul sets out on his missionary journeys and he's bringing the good news or the gospel to these cities in the Roman world, right? They would not have heard that as a set of propositional truths or immediately [00:09:00] associated with an invitation to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior, right? They wouldn't have heard it that way. 

J.R.: Yeah, it wasn't a loaded term back then. It was just a simple descriptive word that means something like what? Announcement? 

David: Yeah, it was an announcement, it was a proclamation, basically. 

J.R.: Yeah, not necessarily just a minor announcement like, hey, we're going to have a baby. It's a proclamation of here's this legislative change. Here's this new ruler. Here's this new governor, right? It had some weight to it. Right. Obviously. But yeah, a larger proclamation to a group of people or a culture, right? 

David: Right. Yeah. Okay. So that's what we're gonna unpack today. 

J.R.: Okay, so do you consider the word of the gospel to be synonymous with the idea of salvation, or is there something different with that? 

David: I think there's something different. They're obviously related, especially nowadays. But originally, I don't think the two are as related as we think they are. But I think even today we have this idea, salvation is this one thing, right? [00:10:00]

J.R.: Oh yeah, yeah. You talk about a loaded word. Yeah. Sure. 

David: And to your point, I think we talk about what is the gospel. Most people are going to equate that with the same thing as asking, what is salvation, right? What does it take to get saved? 

J.R.: Right. 

David: And I thought it would be an interesting exercise in looking at all the ways in the New Testament that people got saved. Because really, when you look at the New Testament there's a lot of different ways that people described this same idea of someone came to salvation. <Right.> And it's really a difference between, is salvation this status that you achieve so once you've got it, okay, now you have this thing, you have this certificate that says, I'm saved? Right. You know, or is it something more than that? 

J.R.: Yeah, I think that many of us assume what the word means when we hear it. But when you really talk to people, individuals, you find out that it has a pretty broad definition. Everything from, yeah, I think salvation is just trying to be a good person, to maybe a very specific and [00:11:00] precise set of beliefs, and obviously everything in between.

So it's another church word that doesn't have much meaning in the secular world, but even in the church world, it means wildly different things sometimes. And so, yes, it is important to understand what it meant in the Bible, because it's a pretty broad range of ways that one could be saved. And some of the verses that we're going to get into they're all over the map a little bit, you know.

David: Yeah, there's no one way, there's not one formula that says, this person did X, Y, Z, and now Salvation has come to your house, right? To use a Biblical term. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah, exactly. 

David: So, I have several examples of basically salvation in the New Testament. And I gotta confess that to do this pretty quickly, I went into ChatGPT And I said, in the New Testament, how do you get saved? I felt a little weird of asking chat GPT how to get saved. All right, let's put it that way. 

J.R.: Yeah, well, what did it say? Well, out of curiosity, Again, it was pretty, 

David: Well, I didn't say it that way. [00:12:00] I said, you know, in the New Testament, what are ways that people got saved? And it actually had a pretty intelligent, comprehensive answer. And I was like, well, there you go. The world's changing. 

J.R.: Certainly, ChatGPT has some pretty solid answers on some things. Yeah. As much as I hate it or that part of me that hates it is also that part of me that finds it wildly useful. 

David: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You find yourself getting mad at yourself because you actually find it useful and helpful.

J.R.: Yeah, exactly. 

David: You're given into the system. Anyway. Alright, so the first example was a well known one if you've been in church. That's Nicodemus, right? And Nicodemus is actually linked with a very wellknown verse that you see at football games or you used to: John 3:16. 

J.R.: On the eye black. 

David: The guy with the rainbow hair. He must've died 'cause he was in like every football game holding up John 3:16 signs.

J.R.: No, I don't remember that. I was giving the Tim Tebow reference, the John 3:16 on the eye-black. 

David: Oh yeah, yeah. Okay. , that's a little more up to date. 

J.R.: That's a little bit more my, yeah, that's right. 

David: [00:13:00] In the 70s and the 80s, there was a guy who wore a rainbow wig and he held a cardboard sign up that said John 3:16. And it seemed like in every major sporting event he was there. 

J.R.: Well, there you go. And you know, it was the rainbow guy pushback. Yeah, John 3:16 to the streaking phase <yes> back in the 70s and 80s. 

David: All right So anyway, the story of Nicodemus is linked to actually John 3:16 because it's Jesus's response to Nicodemus, right, where he says, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." 

All right, so this is Jesus's response to Nicodemus, in part. Jesus is saying, you have to place your faith in the Son of God, right? "Whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." Which is basically, that is salvation. 

J.R.: Right, and again, this is one of the most recognized verses in the Bible, but the whole conversation between Nicodemus and Jesus is absolutely amazing. It's fantastic. So, [00:14:00] take a moment and read , that whole dialogue between the two. Have you seen The Chosen yet? Have you seen any of that? 

David: Yeah, I'm watching season four right now. 

J.R.: Oh, okay. That's one of the best episodes of The Chosen is the Nicodemus and Jesus episode back in season one.

David: Oh, okay. Yeah. No, it's fascinating, because you hear this verse so much now, but you're right, in the context of this whole conversation that Jesus is having with Nicodemus, it kind of takes on a whole, well, goes back to the original intent, right? The life of its own. But we've made it this stand alone proposition to say, if you do this, you will not perish, but have eternal life, right?

J.R.: Right. But again, to have eternal life, all he says in that verse, is whoever believes in him. Meaning Jesus. So yeah, that's pretty straightforward. Okay, check. 

David: Yeah, straightforward. That seems to check the boxes, right? 

J.R.: Right. 

David: Another one is basically this idea of confessing Jesus as Lord, right? And that's another popular one you confess Jesus as your Lord and Savior. 

J.R.: Okay, yeah, so that [00:15:00] plays on the first one. 

David: Yeah, so Romans 10:9, this is the Apostle Paul writing, of course. And he says, "If you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and you believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

Again, pretty straightforward there. Can't get much clearer than that. Yeah. And there seems to be two parts of it: you confess Jesus is Lord, and you believe in your heart that He really was raised from the dead. 

J.R.: Yeah, I was just about to say, Paul, in the following verse says, "for it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it's with your mouth that you profess and are saved." So he kind of seems to imply that there's two parts of us involved in this process of salvation. There's the emotional, spiritual aspect of the heart and the outward action characteristic of the mouth, right? And these two things come together to personify salvation. So it's a little bit more nuanced than Jesus reply to Nicodemus of John 3:16, but still the same principle.

David: Yeah, yeah. There needs to be some agreement with what you're confessing and what [00:16:00] you actually believe. I thought this was also interesting because we talked about this in recent weeks. There's this bit of a phenomena where some well known thinkers are actually embracing Christianity.

<Oh, right.> You'll hear them say things when they're pressed, So are you saying that you believe Jesus rose from the grave? And you can hear people go you know, I'm still wrestling with that, and I'm still processing that, or I wouldn't go that far. And you know, we look at a verse like this, and we go, oh, well, that person's not saved.

 <Right.> Well, if that's the only verse you read, then, yeah, right? 

J.R.: Yeah, but it's sort of this wrestling with the idea of they see value in the Christian tradition. The reality of the specifics of, did he really come from a virgin birth? Did he really rise from the grave three days? You know, a little bit of an asterisk there <Yeah.> for some of these intellectuals, right? 

David: Yeah. All right, so that's Romans, that's the Apostle Paul. Here's another one, healing. Now this is something we don't often put together, but in the New Testament, healing is [00:17:00] often associated with, basically, that someone got saved.

So the lame man at the Pool of Bethsaida John chapter 5, says, "When Jesus saw him lying there and learned that he had been in this condition for a long time, he asked, 'do you want to get well?' And then Jesus said to him, 'get up, pick up your mat, and walk.'" And the implication of that story, when you read the whole story, is that that man had put his faith in Jesus, and he was now saved, basically through a healing, right? 

J.R.: Right, well, there's the story that kind of goes along with that is the guy whose friends lowered him down to Jesus through the roof. 

David: Sure, yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah, and Jesus had that line of saying which is more difficult to tell him to stand up and walk or to forgive his sins.

David: I love that line. 

J.R.: Yeah, it's a great line because, which is more difficult, right? It depends because in one sense, If he says get up and walk, that's the harder thing, because , if he gets up and walk, we all know if you've got the juice to pull that off. <Right.> [00:18:00] Whereas, you know, who knows? 

David: How are you going to argue with that? Yeah. 

J.R.: Right. But forgiving of sins, that in theory is more difficult, but we don't have the obvious manifestation of pulling that off, right? You're just taking his word for it. And so he ties both of them together.

And so, I agree with you that it is tied to salvation as far as the healing, but in that story, I think he distinguishes the two, and says I'm forgiving your sins because I have the authority to do that, and just to make sure everybody knows that I'm not kidding around, you're also gonna walk.

David: Right, yeah. 

J.R.: Right, so he kind of ties those two ideas together. 

David: Yeah, they're very much tied together in that story, and it's a great story because the whole idea of the forgiveness of sin is certainly the more outrageous claim, and it's not readily evident, right? Like, a guy, a lame guy suddenly walks, and you can't really argue with that. But it's almost the audacity to say, I have forgiven his sins, and now he's saved. Well, how do you prove or disprove that, right? 

J.R.: Right, that just would have made him an instant heretic. [00:19:00]

David: Oh, yeah. But the 

J.R.: fact that he healed somebody, at least he has the crowd on his side saying, well, he did heal the guy. 

David: Yeah.

J.R.: You know, we've known this guy for a long time. I promise you, the guy couldn't walk, guy's been lame since birth. And so he's got the testimony of the guy that is now walking to go with the authority to forgive the sins. Yeah. Yeah. 

David: But a lot of healing stories, it's one and the same as saying salvation has come to this person, right? <Right.> Because the physical healing is very much linked to almost the, what would you say, the healing of the soul. Yeah. One wasn't necessary for the other, but they were very linked. And people understood that.

J.R.: Again, it's this idea that you said from the beginning, this broadening of the idea of salvation. <Right.> You know, I don't think any of us today would say, well, we did a scan and there was cancer and then we did another scan and there's no cancer. And so, wow, this guy must be saved. 

David: No, yeah. We wouldn't tie those two things together like they did. Right, exactly. No, that's a good point. So, that's [00:20:00] this idea of healing. 

Another well known story, the woman caught in adultery, right? Oh, sure. Again, in the book of John this woman's caught in adultery. They accuse her and drag her before Jesus to see what Jesus is going to say, because the implication is Jesus is going to say, "Well, she was caught. You should stone her." Right? But Jesus doesn't. In fact, this fascinating story where Jesus starts writing something in the dirt give anything to know what he wrote. But one by one, the people were like, yeah, I don't want to take part in this, right? 

J.R.: Yeah, nevermind. What a savage move. Because he doesn't diminish the law with that. Right? He doesn't say, no, we're not gonna stone her, because he's not sidestepping the law. He doesn't diminish the law. He just puts it in its proper perspective. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: Which is such a brilliant response to that. 

David: Right. And then at the end, we get to these verses where Jesus says to the woman, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" Talking about the law, . "No one, sir, she said. Then neither do I condemn you, Jesus declared. Go [00:21:00] and now leave your life of sin." Now, the connection I want to make here is that this connection between her leaving her life of sin and basically entering into salvation is a way to say it.

And this is a common one. This would be something that most people say, yeah, part of salvation is to stop sinning, right? 

J.R.: Right. Well, I was gonna say, but also to see that it's condemnation by God. That salvation is being free from the condemnation of God, and so when Jesus says, yeah, okay, therefore I don't condemn you either. And leave your life of sin.

So I don't know if the salvation means, Well, I do know that salvation doesn't mean that you're not ever going to sin anymore. But it does mean that there is no condemnation from God for the sins of your past, and theoretically the sins of your future, perhaps. 

David: Yeah, but there's a very clear instruction from Jesus is, leave your life of sin. Right? God does not condemn you. As a result, go leave your life of sin. And again, this is something that [00:22:00]you've seen Jesus talk about elsewhere. It's something the Apostle Paul talks about. He talks to these churches and says, hey, knock the sinning off, right? You guys are Christian now. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

David: And so there is this idea of repentance from sin. To your point, you are no longer condemned by God, but then there's almost a response. And the response is, stop letting sin rule your life. 

J.R.: Well, to tie it back to the healing aspect, is that this person's been saved, he can now walk. I mean, it's a completely different life. And, to the woman at the well, what he's saying is essentially the same thing.

Okay. I want to see something completely different. I want everybody around you to say, look, I don't know whether her story is true or not, all I know is that she lived one way before, and now she lives a completely different way now. 

David: Right. 

J.R.: You know, almost that dramatic. effect of the lame man walking, right? We ought to have something in our lives that people around us say they used to be one way, and now they put it in quotes, now the lame man [00:23:00] walks. 

David: Right, exactly. There's something different about them. So, it does start to demonstrate this link between, say, being saved and behaving differently.

In healing, there's a very literal way of behaving differently, right? Right. I can see now, and I didn't before, but there's also almost this moral change. I'm going to stop living the way I did, and I'm going to live a different life because of salvation, right? 

J.R.: Yeah, I haven't put those two things together until I read these verses scrunched up like this. That you can see the parallel. 

David: Yeah, absolutely. 

J.R.: Yeah, that's kind of neat. 

David: All right, we got a couple more and then we'll move on. Baptism is basically just another way of saying salvation in the New Testament, right? Peter's message at Pentecost, "Peter replied and says, 'Repent and be baptized, every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sin, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'" So that ties in two or three of these ideas we've already talked about: repentance [00:24:00] from sin, but also baptism. And baptism in the New Testament is almost just shorthand for saying, yes, this person got saved. Sometimes it didn't even say they accepted Jesus or proclaimed anything. It just said they were baptized. 

J.R.: Yeah, you're right. They just shorthanded to baptism. And I think Peter here draws kind of the clearest line, I think, to the modern church's understanding of salvation. If you were to ask a modern day pastor about salvation, this is the closest biblical version that you'll hear. They'll say something similar to that, repent, be baptized, and you're saved. 

David: Right, but even that becomes a formula, right? Here's the steps you have to take, right? You have to repent, you have to confess, and then you have to be baptized. 

J.R.: Yeah, to go back to Paul's explanation in Romans, there has to be that kind of those two parts of it, you know? <Yeah.> The emotional part and the outward characteristic, and you're right, we too often, certainly modern churches, we too often try to get a formula to it. 

I don't know if you [00:25:00] remember camps or I don't know, special speakers would come to church. In fairness, it was when we were younger, a little bit more of a simplistic version. I remember not our pastor, but pastors coming and speaking and saying something along the lines of, Hey, just say this prayer in your heart. And you're saved. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah, even at a young age, I was thinking, wow, is that all there is to it? Do you have to say it out loud? Can you just kind of whisper it or whatever, you know. 

David: And looking back, you almost want to say, well, it is that simple, but then no, It involves a lot more than that. 

J.R.: Right, and like I said, in fairness, you're talking to kids, so, you know, let's keep it simple. The older you get, the more you realize, no, there's a lot more involved in it. 

David: Well, the last example that I have is from the book of James. James introduces this idea of, Hey, you have to live your faith out. 

J.R.: Oh yeah, James.

David: James had to stir the pot, right? We thought we had it down, and then James comes along. Yep, exactly. So, James chapter 2 says, "But someone will say, [00:26:00] You have faith, and I have deeds. Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds." Yeah, I love this line. "You believe there is one God? Good, even the demons believe that." Congratulations, right? And they shudder at that thought, right? 

J.R.: Exactly. So James We've been arguing about salvation by faith versus works ever since. 

David: James is somewhere going, man, I did not think that was that controversial of a verse.

J.R.: Yeah, James and Paul are both out there saying.

David: There it is. They're still arguing about this 2, 000 years later. 

J.R.: They're still fighting about that. 

David: No, but James very much introduces this idea of, it only takes belief, right? I have faith. And his response is, well, good, because demons believe in God. They know God is supreme, right? I'll show you what I believe by my works. It's what James is saying. 

J.R.: It's almost like James recognized early on the problem with the formula, the problem with the idea of, say [00:27:00] this prayer and you're saved, right? 

David: Maybe he did, yeah. 

J.R.: I don't know when this was written in context of Romans, you know, or Paul's Salvation by faith, but it is almost like James recognized that I could see a problem here if you're just going to say, yeah, I said the prayer and then go about living your life however you want. <Sure.> There's something disingenuous about that. 

David: Yeah. And of course we see examples of all these kind of what would you say? Like one way of interpreting this, turning it into a formula. But we see this too, where I've talked about before, the modern emphasis on grace and that's it, right? Hey, don't worry about all this stuff. You're saved. There's grace, man. Don't worry about it, don't worry about cleaning up. Don't be too hard on yourself. 

J.R.: Right? 

David: And then, you have James in the background smacking his head, right? 

J.R.: Saying, yeah, come on, give me something here. Yeah, sure. No, you can't, you can't just, pat yourself on the back and live the rest of your life without the introspection. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: Looking in the mirror a little bit. 

David: Well, the point of all these, I think, that we're really [00:28:00] trying to draw out is, there's no one formula, right? You see a lot of different things that happen in the New Testament that is basically insinuating that, hey, this is how salvation came to this person.

J.R.: Right. 

David: And there doesn't seem to be any one set way, and yet there are threads that run through each of them that we've pulled on them over the centuries and we say, yes, this is what it means to be saved. 

J.R.: Well, kind of another helpful story is not where somebody was given salvation, but actually where somebody clearly wasn't given salvation. And we talked about this a couple days ago, but the rich young ruler, it's always bothered me because if you remember, the guy specifically comes to Jesus and asks, "what must I do to be saved," right? In, Mark chapter 10, I believe. Okay. Yeah. What must I do to be saved? And if that same question were asked to any church across the country. There would be a pastor there to immediately give a clear answer. Say, "here's what you have to do to be saved." But Jesus doesn't do that. Or at least the answer that he gives him to this day is difficult to [00:29:00]understand. You know, he says something about, have you kept the law? And he says, "yeah, I have." And then he says, "okay, we'll sell everything and give it to the poor and follow me." 

And so you read that and you're like, well, what do I do with that answer when it comes to my formulaic interpretation of the idea of salvation. Where does that fit in? Right? Does that mean that I have to sell everything? And so I think we were kind of getting to that idea that again, there's multiple stories in the Bible that kind of give a little bit different understanding of the idea of salvation. But one thing is that thread through it.

And one thing we were talking about is it's not a formula, but it's more of a calling. It's more of a call to adventure. Yeah, yeah. Is what you were saying. And this story of the rich young ruler actually kind of reinforces that idea. Jesus was inviting him to quite an adventure. He knew his heart, and he said, "hey, sell everything and follow me."

Follow me is the key word, not the sell everything. 

David: Right. 

J.R.: But the follow me part of it. And , it was an invitation. So salvation was an invitation to this guy [00:30:00] to change his life radically. And obviously Jesus is on the earth at the time, so drop everything and follow me. And he wasn't willing to do that.

David: Right, and that's such a softball question, right? What must I do to be saved, that today we would go, there it is, knock it out of park. 

J.R.: How many pastors are dying for that question to be asked every Sunday, right? 

David: And Jesus doesn't, though. That's what you're saying. 

J.R.: Yeah, yeah.

David: You almost find yourself going, Jesus, what are you doing man? You had the guy, you know? 

J.R.: I could have answered that. I could have had one on the list. 

David: No, but, I think that's a good example then of how it's not just a formula. Hey, believe in me. It's follow me. I think you brought out the key point there. It's follow me. It's not sell all you have, but it's follow me, right? 

J.R.: Yeah, I think it dismantles that formulaic idea of salvation and understand that it is much more about follow me. 

David: Well, the other thing that occurred to me as I was reading through this again is so when the Apostle Paul says, you know, you have to believe that Jesus was [00:31:00] raised from the grave, right? Confess Jesus as Lord and that he was raised from the grave. Right. Well, when Jesus is going around, he hadn't risen from the grave. 

J.R.: Well, yeah. Well, so, you know I hadn't thought about that, sure. 

David: So there's something about the idea of, hey, confess me, maybe in the Jewish context is more recognize me as the true Messiah and the implications of all that. But that's another thing is, , if you put a formula there, well, Jesus hadn't rose from the grave yet. Yet the Apostle Paul says to this group of people, you have to believe that God raised him from the dead. Right? So another example of that. 

Yeah, so you already mentioned this, but I really like the idea of the gospel as, yes, there are things you have to believe, there are things you have to change about your life, or that's what should be expected, but it's really a call to follow me, and that's really a call to adventure, right? 

J.R.: Yeah. 

David: And it's really the question, are you willing to follow Jesus and whatever adventure that takes you on.

J.R.: Yeah, whatever path that takes you on, [00:32:00] and the reason that this is a difficult concept for us moderns is that if salvation is a call to adventure, how can you possibly answer someone's question about salvation without knowing the person on a really deep level, right? Knowing those things , those hang ups that they have, knowing those things that are keeping them from fully following in a true discipleship way, right?

We like that answer that we can throw on our Instagram feed that just says, Hey, do this, and you're saved. And that's a bit of a problem when you see salvation as the journey. The call to adventure, makes it a lot more difficult to answer that question.

David: Yeah, exactly. It might help then,  let's go back to what we originally started with, what would this whole idea of the gospel, what would it have meant to a first century person living in one of these Roman towns that Paul visits, even in Judea as Jesus is traveling around, occupied by Rome at the time, let's go back and talk then about, okay, what is the core of what a gospel [00:33:00] message is in first century A. D.? 

J.R.: Yeah, the idea of an announcement or a proclamation, right? 

David: Right. It's announcing something, and it is expecting something in return. That's what we're gonna really unpack here. 

J.R.: Okay. 

David: All right, so it may come to a surprise to some people that this idea of a gospel, it's not originally a Christian idea. It was not a foreign thing. Paul did not make up a word, gospel, 

J.R.: <right> 

David: and go around to people are like what is he talking about? In fact, people knew ...

J.R.: Which is why he didn't define it. <That's true.> He just said the word and everybody understood what he was saying, at least in their time, right? Yeah, exactly. So they had to have some previous understanding of the word.

David: Right, and they did. So we know from history that they did. It's not originally a Christian idea. It's one of those things, again, that Christianity takes from the culture and then redefines it and overlays the culture to give it this whole new meaning. But there was an existing idea of what it was when it was brought up in the first place. 

J.R.: Right. And now it is strictly a Christian <Strictly, yeah.> [00:34:00] word, right? 

David: Exactly. So we've already talked about this, but this idea of the gospel is the good news. That's what the word literally means. It means good news. It's the Greek word evangelian. And again, you can find it all throughout the New Testament, but the gospel and good news, those two ideas are used interchangeably. To say, Hey, I have a gospel would be to say, Hey, I have good news. Okay. 

J.R.: Yeah, big announcement. 

David: Yep. There's a big announcement coming. And anyone who proclaimed a good news, a gospel was also proclaiming that they were about to alter or transform society. Now, that's part of this big proclamation, right? So, like you were saying, it's not really a gospel that, hey, my wife and I are pregnant, right? We're gonna have a kid. 

J.R.: Right. That's a very good distinction. I like that you said that. That it will transform society. It's not, we've said a big announcement, but it actually is, no, this is a transformative worldview announcement. 

David: Right. Exactly. Having a baby may change your life radically, but it's probably not going to transform [00:35:00] society. . 

J.R.: That's right. Nobody else cares. 

David: Yeah. . Well, so one of the earliest examples that we have of this idea of a gospel is a guy named Pixodarus of Ephesus. Again, you and I were an Ephesus, and when I was researching a little bit of the background of Ephesus for a book, I wrote A Journey Through Ephesus, <Mm-Hmm.> I came across this guy named Pixodorus, and this idea that basically, Pixodorus was one of the original evangelists, okay? 

J.R.: Okay, that name doesn't ring a bell to me. 

David: Yeah, we didn't encounter this, but there's a lot of stories about this guy named Pixodorus. And when they started building the Temple of Artemis in Ephesus, which ended up being one of the Seven Wonders of the World, right?

J.R.: Oh, yeah. 

David: There's this whole idea of how do we acquire the marble that we need to build this temple? Well, there's a story that this guy Pyxodorus is a shepherd, and he's out tending his sheep, and he witnesses one of his rams butting heads with [00:36:00] another one next to this hillside, and the ram's hit so hard that it chips a piece of rock off this hillside. Pyxodorus goes over and he picks up the rock, and he realizes that it's marble. 

J.R.: Oh, yeah. 

David: Okay? 

J.R.: That's a big deal because marble is soft enough to be chiseled, but it's hard enough to obviously withstand the test of time. 

David: If you're going to build these temples, all these statues that you see in Greek cities, you're going to need a lot of marble. And if you have to import it, you're going to pay a lot of money, right? 

J.R.: Sure. 

David: So Pixodarus goes back to the city. And in the story, he basically proclaims the good news that he has found marble close by. And this changes the society, right? Because now they can complete this temple. They don't have to import all the marble.

J.R.: Yeah, yeah, they have the means to do that. Yeah, yeah. 

David: Basically, it transforms Ephesian society, and this is, like, three or four or five hundred [00:37:00] years before even Paul's around, so this is way back. That's how far this idea of a gospel goes back, right? <Right.> And so there's this inscription that says, "Thus the citizens decreed him divine honors and changed his name, and instead of Pixodarus, he was to be named Evangelos."

Okay, now there's that word, right? 

J.R.: There we go. Okay, so we're connecting this here. 

David: So he was an evangelist. He was literally proclaimed as an evangelist, a bringer of good news. 

J.R.: Wow. That's neat. 

David: Yeah. That's cool, isn't it? 

J.R.: Yeah. So they literally changed his name and I'm assuming he had a bit of a status change along with that. He's probably not a shepherd anymore. 

David: Sure. It says they decree him divine honors. So this guy wasn't tending sheep anymore, right? <Yeah.> So they renamed him, and they gave him a new name, Evangelist, which is this word, Evangelion, that we just talked about, good news. He was an evangelist. 

J.R.: One of the very first evangelists, and it has nothing to do with Christianity or the gospel as we think of it [00:38:00] today. 

David: Exactly. Very different idea of an evangelist. All right. So, do you remember, we talk about the culture we grew up in, do you remember Al Lacy and Clyde Hyde?

J.R.: Oh, hey, I thought of this the other day. In fact, I was laying in bed, one of those deals where I couldn't go to sleep, and that song, Let the Sunshine In, popped in my head, and I remember thinking, I'm gonna get up the next morning and Google, Al Lacy, see if I can find any MP3s or, anything.

Oh, wow. Yeah. And then, of course, since I was in the middle of the night, I've just completely forgot the next day until you mentioned it right now. How about that? 

David: Okay, wow. Something's going on there. 

J.R.: Yeah, sure. I totally remember Al Lacy and Clyde Hyde. 

David: Okay, so people who don't know who Al Lacy is.

J.R.: Yeah, I say, this is niche, man. 

David: I think this is definitely a subculture thing here. But, Al Lacy was an evangelist, right? Right. And his, I say it a shtick, I don't mean to be disrespectful, because I really actually liked the guy as a kid. He was a ventriloquist and he had a dummy, and the dummy's [00:39:00] name was Clyde Hyde.

J.R.: Right. 

David: It was very funny. I remember getting all excited when mom and dad would say, hey, Al Lacy's gonna be at church Sunday night, you know? Yeah, he did the circuit, he would travel around, right? 

J.R.: Yeah, so he had some comedy, and so I guess he brought the kids in, or drew the kids in through this ventriloquist act, and then he'd do that for 15 -20 minutes, and then he would have a little bit more of a traditional sermon.

David: Yeah, and true to the word, he would present the good news, right? He would share the gospel with people. And that was, why he was called an evangelist. But yeah, so it's just funny because we have this, loaded term like evangelist, and those are the images that come to my mind. But this term goes back, , 500, 600 BC to where the shepherd who found marble is called basically an evangelist. 

J.R.: Yeah, no, that's really neat. And especially in context of the Temple of Artemis, because that was a little bit disappointing when we saw it modern day, because we had heard that it was one of the seven wonders of the world, and there were other temples that we saw that were more [00:40:00]completely reconstructed than the Temple of Artemis, right? You know, so we went to it, and wasn't it in a swamp? 

David: It was kind of a swampy area, yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah, swampy area, and all I remember about it, because you couldn't really get a full understanding of the size of this temple, but it was like twice as big as the other temples. 

David: Oh, yeah.

J.R.: But they did have a couple of the columns that were, at least segments of them, put together, and when you walked up to it, you were like, Oh my gosh, this is like, three times as big around as the other huge columns that we'd seen. It was massive. And so yes, for that to have taken place, you would have had to have had a windfall of marble to pull this off. Right? <Oh yeah.> Pixodarus, I guess he did change the culture with this big announcement that he found. 

David: Well, yeah, he transformed the city of Ephesus because the center point becomes this temple. And for a little bit of context So Nashville has a replica of the Parthenon in Centennial Park. You and I both been there. 

J.R.: Oh yeah, sure. 

David: So [00:41:00] if you look at the original dimensions of the temple of Artemis in Ephesus, it was twice as long and twice as wide. 

J.R.: Wow. Yeah, it was a huge footprint, and again, we couldn't get the full scope of it while we were there modern day, but yeah, it was a massive, massive area.

David: Yes, all right, so now move ahead to Roman times. Because, now we have this idea of the gospel and an evangelist, right, that's already circulating. By the time Rome comes around, the gospel was actually very much associated with the Roman Empire, and gospel announcements usually revolved around a military victory or the reign of a new Caesar, right?

And those literally, now when you think about how announcements were made, you would have this proclamation in Rome, it would be written down, and you'd have messengers that would go take it to all the different cities. 

J.R.: Why wouldn't they just tweet it out? It's so much faster. 

David: It is, yeah. Except it gets misinterpreted, and then Elon Musk has to get [00:42:00] involved, and so, it's a whole ...

J.R.: ah, yeah, yeah. So there you go. Maybe we should go back to that. The announcements and the scribes and the marathon runners that run from town to town. 

David: Yeah, I do like the idea of, the herald unrolling his parchment in the town square, announcing something, and that's your news, basically. So, that's what everyone talks about. 

J.R.: Yeah, that'd be a nostalgic thing to go back to. Yeah. Yeah, sure. 

David: So that's what the gospel would come to have meant by the time of Rome, okay? It would be read through a herald in towns, and it was kind of making this proclamation throughout the empire.

 One of the things that I read recently that I really liked, and this is in a book by Father Andrew Stephen Damick. So, these are not ideas, by the way, that you and I have just made up, in case anyone's wondering. 

J.R.: No, we can't take credit. 

David: N. T. Wright has talked about this 20, 30 years ago, read a lot of his writings. So, Father Damick actually talks about, there's three elements to this gospel announcement, and it was the one who's being proclaimed, so that would be like the general who won the victory, or the Caesar, right, the new Caesar. It was [00:43:00] what they had accomplished, what they had done. They won this victory, now the war's over, something like that.

J.R.: Right. 

David: And what was expected of those hearing the gospel? Now this is an important element here. So as a result of this gospel proclamation, here is what is expected of you, right? This is how society is going to change and transform. 

J.R.: Right, and so that, does have a little bit more that nuanced idea of the gospel not being a checkbox type of equation. But it's more of a give and take. Here's the good news, here's what's been done, and here's how your life needs to change because of it. 

David: Right, going back to the ways that people got saved in the New Testament, you can see how there is starting to be this correlation now with, okay, here's the news, now here is how you are expected to go live. <Yeah.> And that was just part of it, right? That was expected. 

J.R.: Right, and if the ancient people understood that word, gospel, to mean that, then that would have been implied when Paul used the word gospel, right? So there's going to be a big announcement. Yeah. And there's going to be some way my life needs to [00:44:00] change to orient myself to this announcement.

David: Yeah. Paul didn't even have to explain that part. People just knew, okay, there's a big announcement, and this is going to change the way that, our town operates, the way we live, the way we respond to this. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah, that's interesting.

David: And there's also rewards and punishments, because implied in a gospel announcement is either you're on board or you're not. The gospel announcement is very much, hey, this is what's happening. And it's up to you to get on board or not, but if you're not gonna get on board you're not gonna have a very fun life here, right? That was very much these proclamations from Rome. 

So, for example, when Rome proclaimed peace, in a town, there's something implied there. What's implied is, hey, there's peace if you get on board, but if you're not on board, if you're gonna resist Rome, things aren't gonna be very peaceful, right?

J.R.: Yeah, I think we talked about this in a previous podcast, in the Philippians podcast, where they came in and announced peace. And that wasn't an announcement saying, hey, this is the way things are gonna be from [00:45:00] now on. Everybody's gonna be peaceful and happy. What they're basically saying is that you guys are gonna get on board for this idea of peace, or it's gonna be pretty miserable.

Right, exactly. Right, so it's an interesting idea of peace. 

David: Yeah, which I think it's this interesting idea then of rewards and punishments, because that kind of goes right along with it, right? Jesus announcing, hey, the kingdom of God is at hand. Well, part of what is implied in that statement is, get on board and get ready for an adventure. But if you're not on board, then, you know, woe to you, right? Jesus goes around and says, yeah, woe to you. You're going to miss the boat. Right? 

J.R.: Yeah, well, it's just to go back to kind of the prosperity gospel because we knocked on that a little bit and I don't want to completely knock on it. I'm not saying that if you follow Christ that, you won't get sick and, everybody's going to be happy in your life. I'm not talking about happiness, but there is an understanding of if you align yourself with the Christian [00:46:00] message , then it really will make your life. I don't want to say easier, because again, I don't want to imply that your problems are solved. But it does help you, it prepares you for the road. It prepares you for the inevitable problems in your life that are going to come up. 

David: I think that's a good point. I think in modern parlance we would say, it would actually give your life meaning and equip you to handle the inevitable suffering that comes with life. At least it's going to have meaning, right? 

J.R.: Yeah. There's kind of two extremes. There's one extreme that says if you follow Christ, you'll be wealthy and all your problems will be solved We obviously don't agree with that. But then there's that other extreme that says no, no, there's no promises of anything. Your life may be miserable. In fact, that idea of, bear your cross, almost like it's going to bring pain and suffering to your life. And I don't really think that's the answer either.

Your life may have, well, life in general has pain and suffering, but you're better equipped to handle that pain and suffering. And that's that idea of joy as opposed to happiness, you know, it's Right, yes. [00:47:00] Right, I know the mindset I need to have in the midst of pain and suffering. 

David: Which will ultimately bring more meaning to your life, in that sense, make it better, right? 

J.R.: Yeah, but I like it because it ties back to this idea of the Romans made a proclamation, If you get on board, we'll all be fine, and if you don't get on board, you're pushing against the wrong bull, right? Yeah, exactly. I like that idea of tying those two concepts together.

David: So another thing that we kind of have addressed, but other elements of a gospel proclamation, it's usually seen as having divine support, right? So when Pixodorus finds marble, they gave him divine honors, right? This was clearly from the gods. So, if you wanted to legitimize your proclamation, all you had to do was say, look, I have the backing of the gods, right?

J.R.: Yeah, there's divine inspiration behind it. 

David: Sure. And another common theme that you see in Roman Gospels was that the good news was seen to usher in a time of peace. Well, that aligns right with what Jesus is saying, right? [00:48:00] the offering of peace, but it's a very different peace than what Rome was offering, as we've discussed previously as well.

J.R.: Exactly, yeah. 

David: So let's go back to then Priene, right? We started off talking about this Priene place in Turkey that we visited. So there was this inscription found there, and this is one of, again, you read books, you look it up online, it's one of the best examples of a gospel proclamation of Rome.

Okay, and it reads, "The birthday of the god Augustus" , so this is Caesar Augustus, "was the beginning of the good tidings." So there's that word, the good news, right? This one says tidings, but "the beginning of the good tidings for the world that came by reason of him. From his birth, a new reckoning of time must begin."

Alright, so it has all three of those elements that we just talked about, right? Who is it that's being proclaimed? And this is Augustus, Caesar Augustus. What had been done, and this is not so much what he did as much as it is the event that took [00:49:00] place, which is, he was born. Right, right. And it even calls him the god Augustus, so there's that. 

J.R.: Yeah, I it always has the divine behind it, right. 

David: Yeah, so this is backed by the divine, right? His birth was backed by the divine, so it has those two elements, and then what was expected of those who's hearing the gospel? Well, when you really look at this announcement, what they're announcing is that they're going to actually change the calendar, and his birth becomes the new calendar.

J.R.: Oh, that's cool. Okay, yeah, so a new reckoning of time must begin. See, I was thinking that just in vague terms, like, hey, it's a new age. But they're saying specifically it's a new way of looking at time at the calendar is going to begin now. 

David: Exactly 

J.R.: Okay. Yeah, that would have been a neat inscription to find. How come we didn't know about that.

David: I don't know We'll have to go back 

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. That's all there is to it 

David: You go visit these sites and there's always something you miss and then you read about it in a book and you're like, man, we were right there and no one told me. 

J.R.: See this is what [00:50:00] happens when you don't take the bus tour The bus tour probably would have pointed that out, and we're too busy wandering out on our own.

David: Yeah, I know, there's a trade off. You're crammed in a bus, you usually eat a pretty bad buffet lunch.

J.R.: Oh, yeah. No, no, I like the way we do it. We miss some things, but I like the way we do it. Yeah. But to your point, yeah, this is interesting. So this is the Augustan calendar, sure? 

David: Yeah. So this is literally proclaiming, we are going to change the way that we measure time. I mean, that's how much this proclamation changed society, right? 

J.R.: Sure even up to today. 

David: Yeah, that's right.

J.R.: That's what, we're still connected to, right? 

David: Yeah, so that was the good news of this proclamation. It's a gospel announcement, right?

And so that's the context that you have now when Jesus goes around and he's saying, I'm going to bring the good news. I'm going to share the gospel, right? Now, it kind of takes on a different meaning, I think, when we understand that original context.

All right, so let's wrap this up by looking at those three elements, [00:51:00] from the perspective of what the New Testament is proclaiming, then.

J.R.: Okay, What's being proclaimed, what he'd done, and the expectation moving forward. 

David: Yeah, exactly. So, those would have been expected. If you said, I have a gospel announcement, right? Those elements would have been expected. You'd wait to hear each one of those things, right? Right. So, who is being proclaimed?

Well, obviously it's Jesus. Yeah. Jesus is the Sunday school answer. Yeah. In this case, yes, the right answer is Jesus. 

J.R.: You nailed it. Yeah.

David: And, again, Mark chapter 1 verse 1, this is a kind of a neat verse that lays it out. "The beginning of the good news," there's that word, again. "The beginning of the good news, or the gospel, about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God." I mean, it doesn't get much clearer that this is who is being proclaimed, and why. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

David: Right? 

J.R.: And it's easy to take for granted. in our modern context, but back in the day, that's a big announcement. Well, it's a heretical announcement, but it's, huge announcement. That Jesus is the material manifestation of [00:52:00] God. So now there's this bridging of the spiritual realm and the material realm, right? 

David: Yeah, that's true. He has the backing, He has divine backing, right? 

J.R.: Yeah, sure. 

David: He is the Messiah, so it basically says this is why He's important. And so I think it's interesting that Mark's gospel, to use that word, because that's what we call it, right?

Mark's gospel starts out with this, and it's almost like we would just skip past that and go, okay, yeah, he's gonna tell us. But back in Mark's day, he would start out this way, and people would be like, okay, what's he about to announce? He's about to announce something. 

J.R.: Yeah, this is very much a proclamation. Yeah, you can just picture the scribe unrolling it and announcing it in the city square. "the beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God." 

David: Yeah, exactly.

J.R.: Yeah, so it definitely has that flavor to it. 

David: All right, so that's who's being proclaimed. What is being proclaimed? Well, again, Mark hints at it. Jesus the Messiah, right? Jesus is the Messiah, and everything that goes along with that. And the [00:53:00] way I have come to kind of understand it is the gospel announcement is that Jesus is the Messiah, He's the Son of God, and that all things in heaven and on earth are being brought under the reign of Christ.

Now, where do I get that? Well, I get that from the book of Ephesians. But I really do think that captures the gospel announcement. What is God doing, right? Right. So Ephesians chapter 1 verse 9 and 10, "With all wisdom and understanding He made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure. Which he purposed in Christ to be put into effect when the times reached their fulfillment to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth, under Christ." 

J.R.: Yeah. That last line, to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under this one person. 

David: Yes, and that's what Jesus is doing. That's what God is doing. In fact, all throughout Ephesians, Paul very much couches this idea of this mystery of what God has been up to is now being revealed, and this is what [00:54:00] he is doing. He is bringing all things in heaven on earth under the reign of Christ, right?

J.R.: Exactly, and what's missed in our modern context is this idea, you know in the ancient ideas there are lots of gods. You could use one person's god for one thing and another person's god for something else. And so there was this multiplicity of spiritual forces that you would call to. And, when all things are aligned under Jesus, what Ephesians is saying, and what the gospel proclamation is saying, is that when all things are aligned under Jesus, there's no need to search out the benefits of these other gods, right?

That's what he's uniting, right? Uniting this idea all under him, that he is the direct connection, to God as opposed to this multiplicity of ideas of this is how I could get wealth or this is how I could get good crops or this is how I could get a bigger family. That was just understood in the ancient mindset that we've kind of lost that today. But it was very much in the ancient culture and he's uniting all those ideas under the person of Jesus.

David: Yes, and [00:55:00] very much, too, in this same letter, he's saying, by the way the god that you're currently worshiping, he answers to Jesus. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: Right, because all things are being brought together under his reign. So, your god is not in charge of what ever you think your god is in charge of. He answers to Christ.

J.R.: Yeah, he's eventually gonna have to run it through Jesus. Might as well just go straight to him. 

David: Yeah, or more likely the case, he is standing in rebellion of what God is up to, and woe to that spirit that's trying to stand in the way and not aligning himself with the purpose of God, because God's purpose is going to happen, period. Right? Right. That's very much part of this gospel announcement. 

J.R.: But yeah, again, you know, to talk about what is being united. Today, we kind of lose track of that, but back in the ancient world, they knew exactly what was being united. 

David: Yeah, I think that's true. We don't have much of an opinion about this idea of what does it mean to unite things in heaven under God. 

J.R.: Yeah. You're right. 

David: And what I mean by that is, we're gonna draw on some [00:56:00] things that we've brought out in the book of Judges, in the Psalms, right? This idea that the spiritual world had a rebellion and that there are spirits in rebellion against what God is doing.

J.R.: Right. 

David: And that's where this whole idea that we just read, this bringing all things in heaven on earth, it all ties back through the Old Testament, and that's what their worldview was at this time, and that's the worldview I think we've lost, right?

J.R.: Yeah, the old fragmented spiritual world that they used to view things through. You know, this idea of the rebellion, the multiplicity of gods. Yeah, this is all being united  into one person. And the more I think about it, the more I think we take for granted the fact that we basically live under that idea now. I realize there's Eastern religions and there's other quote unquote gods and other quote unquote religions going around. But in general, you know, there's not this, what, Greek ...

David: Yeah, you don't have a pantheon of gods. Yeah. 

J.R.: Right. And I [00:57:00] think the ancient world very much believed that. Sure. Which is why they constantly were going after other people's gods. It wasn't that they were changing their religion. It was like, man, this guy Baal or this god Moloch, he has a lot to offer and, maybe I could just give a couple sacrifices to him and benefit in the short term or something like that. Right. You know, that's why they were told not to go out to those things because they're not unified under the person of Jesus. <Right.> And so it was very much the ancient mindset that we've lost, for better or for worse, today. 

David: Yeah, so again, people can disagree like, what is being proclaimed? To me, I like that explanation of, this is what's being proclaimed. Because, well, we'll get to this as we wrap up, because it takes it off this personal invitation to me that we're used to hearing, right? 

J.R.: Yes, exactly. 

David: This gets to the third part, then what is expected of those hearing the gospel? Align yourself with the kingdom of God, right?

J.R.: Yeah, exactly. That there's a bigger thing going on than just making your life better or 

David: Yes. 

J.R.: Yeah, it kind of draws away from the [00:58:00] idea of the personal invitation and shows us there's something bigger. There is an entire kingdom of God that we need to align ourselves with. And so, it kind of makes it a little bit bigger than, Hey, clean up your act and let's clean up your language a little bit. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: Let's not do the things you've always done, right? Let's align ourselves to what God's doing in all of the world, in all of creation. 

David: Yeah, it's a call to action. It's a call to adventure, right? It's why we say that. It's a call to alter your life to what God is doing, because you want to be aligned with it. That's what it means to be part of the kingdom of God.

So it kind of takes this option off the table that, I'm going to believe A and B, and now I've achieved this status of salvation, and now I'm good. I don't really have to worry about that part of my life anymore. 

J.R.: Yeah, exactly. 

David: Right? That's not aligning yourself with a gospel announcement.

J.R.: Right. 

David: And one other thing I'd say to this is, you know, how do you align yourself with the coming of the kingdom of God? Well, I think Jesus when he was proclaiming it, part of that is, [00:59:00] how do you do that? Well, you repent, right? And part of repentance is not just saying, I messed up, sorry. It's actually changing the way you live. That's what repentance means. 

J.R.: Yeah, yeah. It's another loaded word that we think we have an understanding of the meaning. Are we talking about apologize? Should I apologize? Should I atone? 

David: Am I just fessing up to something? Right, you know. 

J.R.: Yeah. Right. What are we repenting of? That type thing. But yeah it holds this idea of like the direction you're going turn around and go the other direction, you're going the wrong way, right? So repenting is something more than just like you said fessing up that, yeah, I ate the last cookie. It's more like, yeah, turn your life around and go the opposite way that you've been going or go a completely different direction that you've been going your whole life. And so, again, that ties into that idea of alignment with the kingdom of God, because our lives are not naturally aligned with that, and so that means we're gonna have to change direction. And so repenting implies the idea of changing direction, yes. 

David: And so it's [01:00:00] neat, because just as you were saying that, with that perspective, it's why James can say, hey, faith without works doesn't work, you know? Faith without works is like saying, Oh, you caught me in the cookie jar, right? Sorry about that. 

J.R.: Yeah. Ask for forgiveness, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's an alignment issue. And so when you see it that way then you can kind of see the joining of those two ideas of Paul saying you're saved by faith and James saying that works has to come out of this, right? You have to change your direction, and that requires, well, a change of direction. 

Your works are gonna change because of that, right? Your life is gonna change from that. Yeah. So that's what James is saying, right? Let's change this alignment. 

David: Yeah, yeah. And from that perspective, it actually does start to tie all these, disparate ideas. It actually starts to tie them together, I think, to have this ancient understanding of what a gospel is.

J.R.: Yeah. No, it really does. 

David: It's really clear in Mark chapter 1, again, verse 14, Mark says, "Jesus [01:01:00] went into Galilee proclaiming the good news of God." Okay. So there's the gospel announcement, and this is what he proclaimed. "The time has come. The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news."

Now, that verse right there takes on so much more meaning when you start to understand all the concepts we've just been talking about, right? 

J.R.: Yeah. I kind of want to dissect it a little bit, but maybe we don't have time, but yes, the idea of repent and believe the good news, before you and I talking, my thought would be, yeah, say you're sorry and believe in Jesus. But now you look at it and say, no, no, no, align yourself with God, change the direction you're going, and buy into the idea that Jesus is the physical manifestation of God and align yourself with Him. Yeah, there's a lot more weight to it. 

David: Yeah, and if that sounds like a drag, don't lose the idea that this is good news. Right? Right. Yeah. So don't look at it as like, Oh, this is a drag. I got to quit doing this and that, and I'm going to have to change my life up. That's not what good [01:02:00] news is.

Good news is you're going to look back and go, that was the best decision I ever made. 

J.R.: Right. You're actually aligning yourself with reality. 

David: Yeah. To bring in another topic we talked about. Exactly. Yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, listen, there's lots of dead ends in life. There's lots of things that I believe 20 years ago that I don't believe today. And you kind of take that for granted and it takes an adjustment and when you're entrenched in your ideas and you hold on to them and you say absolutely I'm not changing my mind about this, it actually makes your life kind of miserable. 

David: Yeah, yeah. 

J.R.: And so when you align it with the correct direction, your life does go a little bit easier because you're actually corresponding better with reality and the things that life throws at you. And so it is good news. I mean, it's very practical outworking of how to live your life. 

David: Yeah, well, so, we've started to unpack, what this means for our understanding of the gospel, so we've talked about some of this. The one aspect that I really like is this idea that it's something happening whether or not [01:03:00] I accept it. And, it's not an optional way I live my life. Like, this is happening whether I do it or not. Right. And I think we lose that aspect of the kingdom of God coming. 

J.R.: Yeah, if it's true, then it has to change your life. Yeah. I have to reorient myself to it. Yeah, I was just reading a book recently talking about, you know, ancient ideas and ancient beliefs, and I'm not going to get too into it, but talks about physics and the geocentric idea that the sun is orbiting around the earth and the ancient beliefs. And then Galileo comes along and says, no, no, no, we're actually rotating around the sun and how there was such pushback to that obviously in the scientific community, but even in the religious community. There was such pushback because it required a completely different alignment of the way the world worked. Turns out that Galileo was right. But it's much harder than you think to adjust your worldview to that. 

Because I look up in the sky and the sun is clearly going around me, right? And when somebody comes along and upends that and says, no, no, no, it's [01:04:00] actually us that's going around the sun, right? It requires a dramatic worldview shift. And another thing that we obviously take for granted, but this book does a fantastic job of saying how disruptive that idea was, and why there was such pushback. It wasn't like everybody said, oh wow, I've never thought about that. I bet you're right. You know. Yeah. It upended the world. It turned their world upside down. 

David: Yeah, well the church, didn't the church basically excommunicate Galileo or something? Because Yeah, sure. No, the earth was the center of the universe, clearly.

J.R.: Right. And again, it's this kind of unnecessary reading into scripture what you think that means. 

David: Yeah, exactly.

J.R.: And when somebody comes along and says, no, no. Again, now we look at that and say, well, why was that such a religious problem? Because the Bible doesn't say one way or the other, you know. But yeah, we read into it and we add things to it that aren't there. And when somebody upends it, it makes it difficult. So anyway, to go back to that idea that this is happening whether you believe it or not, this is happening. And if it is [01:05:00] true then it has to change your life. It has to change how you align your worldview and your life. 

David: Right, yeah. I like that idea, too, of you align your life to it because it corresponds with reality. You're not fighting reality anymore, right? You're not fighting your your ideas of what reality is. The kingdom of God is saying, no, this is reality. And gets back to that idea of, look, things will go better for you. Not in the prosperous way. But <Right.> you know, the more you are closely aligned with the reality, with the way the world is. 

J.R.: Sure. Yeah. The way you view the world <Yeah.> is going to help you navigate the rollercoaster of life. 

David: Yeah. And so all that is why - I guess to wrap this up, then - is why we talk about this idea of the gospel as a call to adventure, right? Because it's not just a one time thing. I did when I was eight years old and I remember getting baptized, right? Like I'll be honest. I'm still trying to figure it out I'm still trying to figure it out, and it's going to be a [01:06:00] lifetime journey of aligning myself with the kingdom of God. But that's why I like that idea of it's a call to adventure. 

J.R.: Well, the older I get, the more clear it is that it's a journey. That it's a lifelong process. <Yeah, I think that's right.> Yeah, I couldn't have had a clear understanding in my twenties what I do now. Not that I have a clear understanding now. It's just an entire journey that you have to go through that It pushes back against the idea of the equation method. Yeah, just figure out this equation. Check these boxes. 

David: Yeah, yeah. 

J.R.: And you'll be just fine. And life's not like that. And I think anybody's story that is a little bit older can tell you that. Is gonna agree with that. 

David: Yeah, that's true. Alright, so that's part one. Got any last thoughts? 

J.R.: Mmm, man. No, that was really good. Because it is one of those things you have to unpack all these words that we think we understand. Gospel, evangelism, 

David: repentance, salvation, all these loaded words that [01:07:00] we've lost the original meaning, right? Or we've so packed them down somewhere at the core, there's the original meaning, but they're so loaded down with our definitions now of what these things mean.

J.R.: Right, and understanding what the ancient people thought about that word gospel, that's really helpful. Yes, so I like the three points. The one being proclaimed, what that person had done, and what the expectation is moving forward after hearing this announcement.

That's really helpful, and if they understood the word gospel to mean that, then that's helpful for us today to understand that the gospel is more than just a simple decision or something you can post on your Instagram feed, right? Yeah. It's a lot more complex than that.

David: And the other thing I'll say is I mentioned this idea of some of these intellectuals today kind of wrestling with, well, I don't know if Jesus rose from the dead, but I'm embracing Christianity. And I'll be honest, sometimes I hear the debates in Christian circles and when you see it as this call to adventure. I want to say, "Man, [01:08:00] just give this person time." You know. Oh, goodness. Give this person time. Just let them figure it out They're on the right path, right? 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah, you take somebody in the middle of their wrestling and you say, "Yeah, they don't have this point right. They're yeah off based on this." And I think yeah, you go back to the 40s and 50s, watching C. S. Lewis wrestle with some of these things, and because we know the end result, I mean, we know, mere Christianity and these great works that he wrote down, but, I mean, there was a wrestling process for him too.

I mean, he clearly took it very seriously and he went through this process. We just have the benefit of being on the other side of his process. At least I do, my age. Yeah. So when you see some of these other intellectuals that are wrestling with it, man, let them wrestle with it. The fact that they're doing it in a public way on podcasts or whatever, I think it's fascinating because they're wrestling with things that honestly I've never thought of, which is what always attracted me to C.S. Lewis is that he was answering questions that I never even thought of to [01:09:00] think. I remember one time he said how come animals feel pain? And I was like, what? I don't know, you know. 

David: I never thought of that. 

J.R.: Yeah, yeah, where did you come up with that? And why is that a problem, you know? But then he gets into this spiritual dissection of the problem of it, and it's like, yeah, I guess that is kind of, so he goes and answers the question of something that I never even thought to ask, and he does that all the time.

And some of these intellectuals, they do the same thing. Yeah. They bring up great ideas and, you know, just let them work through it, because I think they'll get to the right spot eventually. 

David: And when you understand the gospel as an announcement, as repentance, you're going to have to change the way you live. Part of that is more what we should expect. If someone says, look, I've investigated Christianity, , there's a lot of implications for this, and I'm not sure I'm ready to do it yet. It's almost like, yeah, that's a natural place to be when you're faced with a gospel announcement. 

J.R.: Sure. 

David: Anyway, yeah, it just changes the way you think through some of these things.

J.R.: Yes, exactly. No, I [01:10:00] like this. This is a good start. 

David: Yeah, so I'm excited about the rest of the series. Next episode, we are going to talk about what is the kingdom of God, you know, versus heaven.

J.R.: Oh, yeah. Yeah, you're gonna love that. 

David: Yeah, and we're gonna, we're gonna stir the pot from there, too, as we progress through this series. So, hopefully, people will, change the way we think about some of these ideas and concepts that we just take for granted. 

J.R.: Yeah, this is a good start. I like this. 

David: Alright, so, click on the show notes, if you want to subscribe to our newsletter, if you want to text us, there's a link in there, if you want to join our Facebook group, we would love to hear from you, and we will talk to you next episode.

J.R.: We'll see ya.