Season 3 Preview

To kick off Season 3, we reflect on the highlights of the previous season and share exciting plans for the journey ahead. 🌟 From the impactful Judges series that deepened our understanding of biblical texts to the books that shaped us this past year—classics like 1984 and The Odyssey, as well as modern favorites like The Midnight Library—we explore the enduring connection between ancient myths and contemporary storytelling. 🗺️ Join us as we set the stage for Season 3, filled with fresh insights, timeless themes, and thought-provoking discussions. 💡

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Chapters

• 0:00 Reflecting on the Past Season
• 11:28 Favorite Reads of the Year
• 22:57 Streaming Shows and Movies
• 28:55 Preview of Season Three
• 39:48 Wrapping Up and Looking Ahead

Transcript

Season 3 Intro

[00:00:00]

J.R.: Yeah, we get to be the grumpy old man, but we've earned it. 

David: So when Gladiator came out it was black and white and it was fantastic. 

J.R.: That's right. You had to have subtitles, Right? It was silent. Yeah, that's right.

David: Hey, this is the season three intro. Can you believe we're already on season three? 

J.R.: I know. Isn't that weird? 

David: It seemed like we just got started. 

J.R.: Yeah. Well, I don't know. It doesn't seem like we take much of a break about the time that we go a few weeks, you know, one of us calls is like, Hey, we need to go ahead and start the next season.

So yeah, it doesn't seem like I'm off as long as I would expect it to be. <Yeah, that's right.> So what episode is this? 

David: Overall? <Yeah.> I'd have to look real quick. It's got to be like episode 42 or something. <Okay.> I think we will close in on 50 episodes this season. 

J.R.: Yeah, so we ought to pass 50 this season good Yeah.

All right. Practice makes perfect. I don't know if we're getting any better at it, but I'm getting more comfortable with it. You know the first episodes we did I would have notes laid [00:01:00] out I'm, like I want to say exactly the right thing. <Yeah.> And I think it's better when we're not so robotic and saying the exact right word. Feels a little bit more genuine. So maybe we've gotten better at that at least.

David: I went back and listened to, yeah. One of the first ones we did about a month or two ago, just to be curious. And I was kind of cringing. I'm like, ah, do I really want to do this? But, I would say we definitely have gotten better. Let's just put it that way. 

But you know, it's that whole thing. I think I heard someone say to reach a thousand episodes, you have to go through the first 10 really bad ones. <Oh, sure.> It doesn't matter who you are. 

J.R.: Yeah. Go back and listen to early episodes of any great podcast and you'll find it.

David: Remember the first, have you ever rewatched the first episode of Seinfeld? 

J.R.: Oh yeah. 

David: It's terrible.

J.R.: In fact, that's one of those things that, of course, Seinfeld, we noticed that when it went to syndication, that they didn't have the first season Yeah, they would just go straight to the second or third season and I remember when the dvds came out thinking Oh, wow, i've never seen any of these episodes.

These are all new, you know. But it was [00:02:00] season one that right season one and you're like, wow, these are terrible. I mean just they don't have the chemistry; the laugh track's not right. I don't know. 

David: All very flat affect. Jerry is not an actor so you could kind of tell he had to grow into that role.

J.R.: Yeah. Kramer wasn't Kramer. Yeah, just kind of yeah anyway So yeah, maybe we do kind of get the swing of things. 

David: They figured it out. 

J.R.: Yeah, there you go. So I don't know where we're at on the journey, but, it feels more comfortable doing it. 

David: We are where we are. 

J.R.: Yeah, and we're face to face today, so that's helpful.

David: Yeah, that's another good thing. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

David: So it's the holidays while we're recording this. We're at the same house, we're at mom's house. Yep. And in between fixing all of her stuff. 

J.R.: Yeah, and turkey tonight, so we got the classic. 

David: We're gonna try and get some episodes recorded here. 

J.R.: Yeah, so here we go, this'll work. What do we got for season three? 

David: Yeah, well, so we did this last year, the beginning of last year, and I think, at least it's a fun exercise for me to do a, we're calling this a season three preview, but take a look back at a couple of things that were influential or shaped our thinking. And then we'll do a little preview [00:03:00] about here's what we're going to talk about season three. So who knows how long this will be. 

J.R.: 10 minutes or two hours. 

David: 10 minutes, two hours, somewhere between. 

J.R.: We tend to go two hours. Yeah. 

David: So we did this last year. It's kind of an episode zero if you will, right before we really jump into the topics. But yeah, I thought it would be a cool thing to talk about.

Well, I'll throw it out to you like last season. Okay. Was there an episode or a series we did that you thought, man, I really enjoyed that. 

J.R.: Yeah. I always enjoy the Stranger Things episodes , just because I'm kind of wired that way. Yeah, but man, I loved the Judges series. Loved it a lot more, yeah, then I thought that I would when we kind of had the idea of hey, let's dig into Judges. <Yeah.> But we kind of sat in St. Pete one night and just kind of threw the idea out of hey, do you want to kind of break down Judges? Yeah, and you know, we had our ideas of what Judges was about. But then when we started having that conversation, I was like, Oh, this could be really good.

And I think it turned out great. It's one of those things that I I actually have [00:04:00] lots of conversations with other people about the book of Judges because it's kind of a little bit of a head scratcher to a lot of people outside of the main stories of Samson and Gideon. The rest of it, it's almost like people are afraid to look too much into it because it's such a strange. 

David: Yeah. A good way to say it is because I agree with you. If you said, what was your favorite topic from last season, I would say Judges, just because I still continue to think about it. Where we're even doing some writing about it. <Yeah.> Who knows this may be turned into a book or something that'll be Navigating an Ancient Faith's first book. <Yeah. Hopefully.> Right? So, a good way to think about it is it's almost like Judges makes you what confront all of the, fears or hesitations. That's not the right word that you have about scripture, right? 

J.R.: No, I think you're right.

David: Because it's like, okay, so if I believe XYZ about scripture and then you go read Judges, it kind of really challenges all that. And you have to wrestle with this idea of What am I reading?

Is this [00:05:00] history? Right? Is this mythology as we talk about it? Is it some combination of it? Like, what's going on here? Because there's a lot of weird stories in Judges. <Yeah, yeah.> And you've got to figure out how you're going to read this.

J.R.: And one thing I'm completely comfortable now reading the book of Judges through the lens of myth.

And again, we say this every time, I'm not saying that the whole thing was a myth, but having that lens of the mythic way of translating something, when you understand it, it's so clear in Judges that it seems self evident that you're almost kicking yourself saying, why did I let this bother me for so many years?

<Yeah.> Right? Yeah, you know? <Exactly. Yeah.> And so we've talked about this. Maybe you can't do this to every book in the Bible, but there are certain books that you certainly can view through that lens and draw more out of it. You dig and you really find something special. And so I think one thing that, out of that series, what I got was a new way of translating some of the primarily Old Testament scripture stories that seem to be a [00:06:00] little bit like, why would they explain something this way?

Or why would they describe something this way? And when you have that mythic understanding and like I said, I really think we unraveled pretty much everything in Judges, as far as where I'm comfortable with any problematic parts of that book. I'm comfortable with it now viewing it through that lens. And once you do that, I don't know. It's sort of like we were saying at the beginning, maybe we're better at podcast 50 than we were at podcast number one. Well, judges feels like the same way. I think I'm better at reading Leviticus or Exodus, having read Judges and understanding that.

So I'm saying, yeah, it helps me see it a different way. And it helps me untangle some difficult parts of the Bible.

David: Judges is almost like the advanced class in, how do you read this in such a way that makes sense? Cause once you get Judges down, you can go back to any book of the Bible. <Right, yeah.> Start to see the patterns and start to be comfortable with, okay, they're telling their history here, but they're telling it in a way that conveys a lot more meaning then if you just gave the [00:07:00] facts. You've used this example before, what you ate for breakfast. Well, nobody cares, right? <Right.> But there would be a way to tell that in the bigger sense of a story that might convey a lot more information than what you had for breakfast this morning. 

J.R.: If I were to break down the narrative of your life. It may not be exactly accurate. But what I would be doing is pulling certain stories about your life to convey a larger narrative arc.

And that's clearly what Judges is doing and when you get hung up with, like we've talked about the specific years, the timeframe doesn't seem to work out right. The timeline doesn't feel exactly accurate.

And so once you understand that and you say, okay, think about it as a narrative arc and as a storytelling device, and it can also be true, but that it's crafted and shaped a little bit to convey a larger idea. Through the stories of the judges, the period of the judges. And you do, you, you understand the Bible a lot better. 

David: And I think both you and I are reading a book right now, or I'm [00:08:00] still trying to get through it, but it's a book called Greek Myth and the Old Testament. 

J.R.: Right. 

David: And there's some interesting ideas in there, but it's the old enlightenment way of looking at this. Because this looks like Greek mythology, how do I fit all this together so I can actually prove that they're just riffing off some old Greek myths here to tell their history. The author goes to great lengths to try and do this and to me I'm at a point now after having studied Judges and have a better understanding where i'm sitting there going, It's so unnecessary.

This guy's jumping through so many hoops to make this work because it's this old way of thinking and it's not understanding the ancient way of storytelling and what they're trying to communicate. So yeah, I think I'm much more comfortable reading books like that now and still getting a little frustrated, but just thinking yeah, this is so unnecessary.

Just tell the story; just tell why this is important.

J.R.: Well, you and I are reading fairy tales now in preparation for an upcoming series. [00:09:00]One of the things that is funny is different is that I read some of these fairy tales and I'm saying, This is so weird. This is trying to tell me something. I just don't know what it is. And so instead of just putting it down to say, that was a weird story. That made no sense. It actually is pointing me to something. And I'm doing this a lot in, other Old Testament passages where I'm thinking, okay, the way they're explaining this is not making sense to me.

And, now I see that as kind of an invitation to dig and say, nope, figure out the pattern. What is it trying to tell you, you know? And it's actually kind of exciting to find it now. Cause now you're thinking, okay, I'm gonna figure this puzzle out. And so many times, I mean, once you figure out a few key components, you can decipher, I mean, these components build on each other.

The patterns you see in Judges are often the patterns you see in other parts of the Bible. And so they're not standalone, isolated examples. So, you can use this across different literary stories, whether it be myths, the ancient myths, whether it be certain stories in the Bible, whether it be fairy tales, and once you kind of understand that way [00:10:00] of thinking, you can really break down the meaning behind all kinds of stories.

<Yeah.> . So that was definitely my favorite series. And I think it's probably changed the way I, Heck, it probably changes the way I think, but it definitely changes the way I read many stories, not just the Bible, but other stories. 

David: Well, one day we'll tackle Revelation. 

J.R.: I'm still terrified of that one.

David: That'll be the big challenge. But, yes, we are in agreement that we both really enjoy the Judges series. I like the Gospel Announcement series, too, but we won't go riff on that. You can go back and listen to these, but yeah, I think we're in agreement on the Judges, that we both got a lot out of it.

And I would almost say the conversations that you and I had just offline in preparation were a lot of the enjoyment. Just those moments of insight where one of us would say, I don't know what this means. And we bat around ideas and then one of us throws out an idea and we both look at each other and go, that's it. So that was part of it that's not even captured in the podcast. 

J.R.: Yeah, because a lot of what we do, you know, we do research and so we're getting ideas from other people and what was unique about [00:11:00] Judges. We did get ideas from outside sources, but also there were so many light bulb moments where we're like, I think that's exactly what that means.

And it holds true to the test. And then you start looking to see if anybody else's unraveled that. And it's like, I don't find anybody else.

David: Sometimes they had, and sometimes a lot of what you read in commentaries were basically saying we don't really know what to do with this, right?

Right? 

J.R.: And that's partly why we're kind of wanting to write some of this stuff down. <Yeah.> I think it's truly novel stuff. No, I enjoyed that series a lot. 

David: All right. What was your best read from last year? What did you read that? I always have to go back and remind myself, That's why I'm actually active on Goodreads. If you're active on Goodreads send me a friend request because I always like to see what other people are reading.

J.R.: Yeah, I'm not as active. I'm on there, but I'm not as good at keeping up with posting, you know, here's how my progress is in this book. Yeah. You know okay, so let's go fiction? We'll start there. <Okay.> Some of the best fiction I read in 1984, George Orwell, fantastic. 

David: Okay. Yeah, that was been a long time since I read that. I'd probably gets [00:12:00] something completely different out of it right now. 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah, you would, because it's very timely right now. And I'm sure it was timely at the time it was written. But enjoyed that. I read another book to go along with that idea of seeing patterns and seeing the deeper meaning behind the story at face value I read a book, The Midnight Library,

 <Okay.> is a fictional book and it's a great book if you like Fiction. It's a great book on just the story itself is fantastic. But what I really liked about it is that when I read it, it was after our Judges series and I picked up on so many patterns, so much imagery, so much symbolism that was completely obvious to me while I'm reading it. And my daughter read it at the same time. So I would throw these ideas out to her and she's like, yeah, I think you're right And I had no idea. That makes perfect sense. <Yeah.> And so then you kind of go again, you Google go on the message boards and you kind of see what people are also pulling from it, but it's full of symbolism.

It's just a lot of patterns and a lot of imagery that [00:13:00] you can draw out of the book. So it made the book interesting for that reason. <Okay.> Yeah, what about you you don't read much fiction? Do you? 

David: Well I do Okay, so well, it is fiction. So it's The Odyssey. <Oh, yeah. Sure.> And first time I really read through it and there's going to be a theme all through what we say probably this episode but because of that understanding then of how to pick out the symbols and the patterns in ancient literature for the first time I was able to read something like The Odyssey, right? Because I read the Iliad a couple years ago, right and things really started to click and I remember for the first time really getting excited going, yes, I'm tracking with what's going on here. So when Odysseus is trapped on I think the island with Circe and there's this whole thing about how Circe this Priestess , or witch turns all of his men into pigs, right? And the whole thing's kind of a crazy story, but for the first time, and I remember where I was reading it, it clicked.

I'm like, this actually makes sense. I [00:14:00] understand what they're trying to say with this episode here. <Right.> So I would say The Odyssey just because it's a classic. I wanted to read it and I'm feeling like for the first time, I'm really enjoying reading stuff like that because I'm understanding what they're trying to say. I'm getting a better grasp on it. 

I've read some other classics before and you go, okay, that was pretty cool. That was okay story. Right, right. And then you go listen to a podcast on it or something, and they're talking about things that you go, I don't even think I read that book that you're talking about.

J.R.: Right? Yeah, yeah. You're exactly. How did they pick up on that? So obviously, so easily, right? 

David: Yeah, so that would be mine. I'll put that in the category of fiction. Yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah. Okay. All right. So you're primarily a non fiction guy. So what yeah, what did you? 

David: So it's going to be along the same lines. I had to go back look at everything I've read. Several great books, but there's a really interesting one called Heroes of the City of Man. <Okay.> And it's a guy named Peter Leithart. I think that's how you pronounce his last name, but written [00:15:00] pretty recently and it's funny because it's written as a way to introduce high school students to ancient literature.

J.R.: Oh, okay. That's cool. 

David: But, I'm sitting here reading this and I'm like, this is fantastic. I wish I had read this in high school. <Yeah.> He puts out there, really, the whole idea is why Christians should read ancient literature, and it's really fascinating. He's like, this is essential reading.

You should be reading this stuff, right? You should be reading the Greek Myths. You should be reading Plato and Socrates. And I've read a couple books along those lines this year. I've heard some podcasts about how the early church fathers, a couple of those early church fathers were insistent that you should read this stuff, you know? And so it's fascinating because sometimes I think in modern day, we wrestle with, ah, should I be reading this, you know, if it's not Christian, or categorize it as pagan, and from early on, Christians were in agreement, well, maybe not in agreement, but there were a lot of Christians who were saying, we can learn so [00:16:00] much from this, you should read it.

J.R.: Well, to your point, what we were just talking about in the book of Judges, when you understand some of these patterns, and when you see it in other ancient literature, and you educate yourself on the proper way to read these ancient stories, that, adds so much color and flavor to the way you read so many of the Old Testament stories, because they're written the same way, you know?

I mean, they're conveying information the same way. 

David: And that's one of the key things is they're written - so here's an example: if you wrote a fiction book today and then compared that to how someone wrote a history of I don't know Lyndon B Johnson's administration. <Right.> Now we probably wouldn't see it. But you would probably able to see patterns about writing styles that this is how they wrote around the year 2000.

 <Right.> We're too close to it to see that. . But that's some of what you're seeing in reading ancient literature. 

J.R.: Yeah. Well, you can pick it up on stuff, you know, there's several books that I've read from the early 1900s, kind of classics. 

Well, you notice on books that we call classics, you [00:17:00] know, I read East of Eden, John Steinbeck, it's fantastic book, but it was written in the fifties. And, it's a different writing style. I was always kind of afraid to go too far back. I would read more contemporary stuff because I was afraid if I go back 50, a hundred years, it's like, Oh, it's going to have a bunch of old English and thees and thous or something like that, you know? That I'm like it's going to be boring. It's not going to, but you know, I've kind of broken through that a little bit. And I'm a lot more likely to be okay with reading a book that's, you know, 50, 100 years old. But for that very reason I don't want to mess with The Iliadand The Odyssey. Which is why you know I think you're working on me, so I think I'll probably will pick it up one of these days because you keep encouraging me to do it. But I'm afraid to do it because I happen to pick up a translation, I guess it was probably more older translations, much more poetic. I'm just, the poetry thing just doesn't sink in. 

David: That's a good point because in fairness, I read the prose version of The Odyssey. And I know that there are purists out there who are saying, Oh, you've [00:18:00] got to read the poetry version. <Right.> But I'm like, okay, I'm not there. I can read the prose version. I read the prose version of The Aeneid too. And that was really interesting. Yeah. I really enjoyed The Odyssey. 

J.R.: So hopefully one of these days, I'll be the purist that can read the poetic version, but I just can't do it yet. 

David: And can be snooty and roll your eyes when someone says, Well, I read the prose version.

J.R.: Exactly. 

David: Whatever, loser. 

J.R.: Kind of make them feel bad about it, sure. 

David: We got back on The Odyssey, but yeah, so that was my non fiction book. 

J.R.: Okay, yeah. 

David: So what about you, non fiction? 

J.R.: Well, we both read Revenge of the Tipping Point. I enjoyed that. 

David: Oh, that's right. We took that on our trip. 

J.R.: Yeah. So we kind of read it together, which is, a little bit different dynamic with it because we would read a chapter and then discuss it, but it was a great book.

We didn't agree with everything or the way he laid everything out, but Gladwell is so good at telling stories that stick with you that, we both enjoyed that. 

David: And that was fun to be, you know, at breakfast every other morning and say, all right, where are you at? <Yeah.> Let me know when you finish that chapter. 

J.R.: Yeah, I [00:19:00] think that's what made that so enjoyable. I'm reading a book right now Nonfiction called Nexus and it's by Yuval Noah Harari, same guy who wrote Sapiens.

David: I read that. 

J.R.: Yeah, and he is so good at laying out big ideas. And so it's sort of about information systems and AI, kind of to our Stranger Things episode. <Yeah. > He mentioned several things I'm, like, oh man, I wish I would have taken that angle, on the episode. But in any case what he's really good at is taking the idea of information and going all the way back to the stone age and saying how do we communicate? How do we convey information?

And he's got some pretty fascinating concepts, but it's worth reading. I'm almost done with it. So basically I've got the gist of the entire thing down. 

David: Yeah, that would be interesting because we talk about, well, last episode we talked about Tower of Babel and how that's technology, right?

And how that's important to actually see that in the story. We think of modern communication, but someone like that, I think what you're saying is to be able to go back all the way to stone ages and say, these are [00:20:00] advancements  in communication. 

And these were leaps that our ancestors made. Yeah, that would be interesting. 

J.R.: And of course he takes the obvious things like the printing press. That was a huge advance. And he just kind of takes the communication of information. Well, first of all, what he does is he recognizes that we use information to find truth.

He calls it the naive way that information is spread. And he says, the more nuanced way that you can understand it is that, yes, we use information to find truth, but we also use information to create order. And so he says it's actually a tension between this idea of truth, or maybe you could call it meaning and order and how we use information to either get wisdom out of it or gain power from it.

 That's kind of his overall theme throughout the book. And of course he talks about ancient days. He talks about pre biblical eras. He talks about the Roman era and the way the information is used and spread to either create [00:21:00] order. And sometimes that's done by the spreading of mythology, monsters, that type stuff, because we got to create order and the way to create meaning. So anyway, it's actually a much deeper book than I thought it was going to be. I thought we were going to be talking about AI and yeah, he definitely gets into that. 

David: I imagine he gets into the Roman road system. 

J.R.: Oh yeah. 

David: Yeah. I could see where he'd go with that. 

J.R.: Yeah, he just does a great job at kind of laying it out. One thing that is interesting that was helpful when I kind of thought about it this way is he talks about this tension between mythology and bureaucracy.

And if you want meaning out of something, you want to lean toward the mythology. And that's where the Greek myths came. <Yeah.> But if you want to establish order, you have to lean toward bureaucracy. It's funny because we've talked about this in different words. <Yeah.> But we kind of talk about maybe political parties: one political party has a better story than another. It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree. But whoever can capture that story better, in this most recent presidential race, whoever has a better defining [00:22:00] story is more than likely the one who's going to win.

David: Sure. At its essence, whoever's telling the better story is going to capture people's imaginations and ultimately their vote. 

J.R.: Right. And to create meaning, you need story, you need narrative, you need what he calls mythology. But to create order, you have to have bureaucracy, which bureaucracy is obviously a bad word to us, but it's not. It's the writing down of laws. It's the tax code. It's things that are not great, but it's what establishes institutions in written form. 

David: So that if you have the compelling story, you win the election. Then the next task is actually convert that story to the bureaucracy.

J.R.: Right, to create order. 

David: Because you have to pay that story off. Yes. Or else next time you tell it, no one believes you. <Yeah.> No, that makes sense. 

J.R.: No, it's a great way of breaking it down. And so of course he goes into a lot more depth, but anyway, fantastic read. <Okay.> So that's kind of my non fictional read that I'm enjoying right now. <Okay.> Yeah. What else? 

David: Yeah, so I'll throw out there, did you watch anything, [00:23:00] movie? Streaming show? I say TV, but does that even count? 

J.R.: What does that even mean anymore? 

David: What does that mean? 

J.R.: I mean, everything's streaming. 

David: But we're always talking about a show we watched or something.

So I was trying to think, is there a series that I watched that was really compelling? I actually had a hard time with this one because I don't know that there was anything that I would say that was a great new show or movie. But I will throw out because I mentioned this, and it's not new. I'm sure it's a couple years old. But there was the series I've mentioned before called Midnight Mass.

J.R.: Oh, right. Yeah. 

David: It's a horror genre, right? And i'm not into that but I actually very much enjoyed it because the way it was done. And there are, same thing, there's a lot of symbolism in that show. It was really beautifully done, shot as well. 

J.R.: Yeah, no, it's a great, don't let the horror label scare you.

David: Right, I, realize there's one part in every episode that really gets gory and scary. But other than that, it actually moves almost very methodically and [00:24:00] slowly and you forget you're watching a horror film. <Right.>. So it's really yeah I really enjoyed it. That one stuck with me. 

J.R.: Yeah, it reminded me of the movie, Signs. We've talked about that. If you were to see the trailer you would think the movie Signs is about an alien invasion. But when you watch the movie, as an adult you're like, oh no, this is about losing your religion. This is about faith. This is it's about all kinds of fascinating subplots going on with the overarching plot of the alien invasion. But no, it's a fantastic movie in itself. But yeah, Midnight Mass really reminded me of that. Yeah. If I were to tell somebody about it, You're like, yeah, look, it's about vampires, but listen, don't, , but hear me out. 

David: Because it's very similar. You're right. Because it's about losing your faith. It's about losing your religion, the place of religion in a society. <Right.> Almost you could pull in the themes of what we just talked about. Utopia, they're on this little island and they want to preserve it. <Right.> And how it gets infiltrated. And yeah, there's so much going [00:25:00] on. 

J.R.: Right, and they had to create the myth to kind of keep the order of the island, you know, <that's right> together and to create a culture. It plays in a lot of these themes that we've been talking about on this podcast, so yeah, it was great.

You and I both went to go see Gladiator II. 

David: Over Thanksgiving. Yeah, we did. 

J.R.: That was fun. And which I thought it's not the best movie I've seen all year. But I don't know. It's a good jumping off point to the way we talk about things on this podcast of historical authenticity versus telling a compelling story, you know what I mean?

<Yeah.> You know, if it were a story that were 100 percent accurate, it just wouldn't be as compelling, but they did a good job. I think they did the first movie justice. It is not up to the quality of the first movie. <Yeah.> We both agreed with that. There are a few over the top CGI. They felt like they had to outdo the first one. 

David: Yeah, I think that's right 

Well, whenever you're following in the shadow of a great movie, there's always the what temptation to say we have to top it somehow, right? You're not going to. So you just got to know that [00:26:00]going into it. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

David: And then you just sit back and enjoy the story. 

J.R.: This worked in the first movie. This is what the first movie captured. Let's do that again. And it's like, ah, I mean, you see musicians do it. And true gifted talent is somebody who says, yeah, that's what the first one captured. We want to capture our own thing. 

David: Yep. Scrap that. Right. Let's tell a new story. 

J.R.: Yeah. But it was a fun ride. I enjoyed it. Yeah, you were a little bit more critical than I was. 

David: Well, yeah, I had probably watched a review that was a little down on it and I could kind of see. 

J.R.: Too much Critical Drinker.

David: I know I watched too much. 

J.R.: It's turning you know cynic. 

David: I'm one of those guys that really don't watch movies anymore. I just watch Critical Drinker review movies, which is as entertaining as most movies nowadays. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah, that's happened to me a couple times. My wife will say oh, hey, this movie's coming out You want to watch it? And I'm like, nope. I've heard too much about it Bunch of woke bull, you know, I don't want it. Yeah, I'm not giving my time to that, right? You know, and then I just look like a jerk. 

David: Then you watch it you go, Well, that wasn't bad.

J.R.: Yeah. Maybe it wasn't as bad as I thought. You [00:27:00] know? 

David: One thing I will say about Gladiator 2, and it was fun to discuss it afterwards. There were some things that were a little over the top. <Sure.> But true to Gladiator, the original one. Now the story is fictional, but then you start to wonder, well, did this really happen?

 And true to Gladiator, a lot of things we were wondering about in Gladiator 2 are at least based on actual events. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah. We googled a lot of stuff afterward. We're like, did this guy really kill that guy? 

David: The two crazy emperors. one kills the other. And yeah, that's all legit. 

J.R.: It was fairly accurate. 

David: And Denzel <Right.> Who was his character? But that was based on an actual character. <Yeah.> That temporarily ruled Rome. I think that's right. <Right.> Or he was seeking power in Rome. . So, again, once you realize that I can enjoy something much better. Because I'm like, yeah, , they're actually retelling actual events. They're taking their liberties with it, right, you know, that's okay. And yeah, I agree It was an enjoyable watch. 

J.R.: Yeah, don't get too hung up on the baboons. Or the rhino [00:28:00] riding in on the rhino. 

David: The demonic baboon. 

J.R.: Yeah. You know, just kind of accept that as hey, You got to have something in there for the kids.

David: Yeah, that's right. Because I think a couple younger guys went with us. Let's put it that way and they liked it. 

J.R.: Oh, yeah, they ate it up. 

David: But and their favorite part was the bad watching original one. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

David: Yeah, oh, this is great. And you're like, ah these kids. What do they know original?

J.R.: Yeah, we get to be the grumpy old man, but we've earned it. 

David: So when Gladiator came out it was black and white and it was fantastic. 

J.R.: That's right. You had to have subtitles, Right? It was silent. Yeah, that's right. 

David: But Russell Crowe did such a great job, he didn't have to say anything. We knew what he was saying. 

J.R.: That's right 

David: That's how it works. 

J.R.: Yeah, he embodied it. So anyway, yeah, so we get to be the grumpy men in that situation.

David: Yeah I'm trying to think I that would be it for me I mean, there's a lot of interesting stuff that I watch but in terms of something really compelling. 

J.R.: Yeah, i'm sure there's something I'm missing. But that's what popped in my head as far as what I watched. 

David: Yeah. Okay. 

Well, you want to jump into season three and do just a little preview? 

J.R.: Sure. [00:29:00] Yeah. Let's do it. 

David: So we know we're going to start out with our Greece trip review. 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. 

David: And so I think I've got three or four episodes around that. We're not going to just sit there and say, Hey, here's where we ate and then we drove it. So it's not going to be that. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

David: So don't worry. 

J.R.: It's not a travelogue.

David: Yeah, it's not a travelogue. But we are going to talk about some of the sites because we saw sites like Mycenae and Knossos, Sparta. So we're going to be more talking about those sites, right? And why they're important and just our experience of being there, so. 

J.R.: Well, we kind of casually mentioned that we didn't have as many biblical sites as previous trips, you know, where we go to Philippi. This one was interesting because of the more historical aspect of it, but they obviously tie into biblical times. <sure> You know, I mean, it ties into that and it helps you see again, how stories were communicated and how ideas were communicated.

And it, was helpful to see that. So they'll tie in well. 

David: So one of the things that I realized being over there and I'll [00:30:00] throw it out another book because I read 1177. 

J.R.: Oh yeah. You were telling me about that. 

David: It was a really good overview of the collapse of the Bronze Age. And it mentioned all these sites that we were actually going to, right. I'm reading the book and I'm like, Hey, we're going to be here tomorrow. Look what it says about this. But one of the interesting tie ins to tie it back to biblical history is the collapse of the Bronze Age coincides with the Book of Judges. All this ties together, right? And the conquest of the Promised Land.

One of the pictures that you get of all this happening is the reason why this group of Hebrews is able to leave Egypt and conquer the promised land is because the ancient world at that time was basically in chaos. All the superpowers were upside down, all the superpowers were collapsing, that's right.

And so who cares what's happening in the promised land? Who cares if this group of slaves moves out and fights these other people. At that point, Egypt didn't really care. They didn't have this stranglehold [00:31:00] on <Right.> the Levant area of that time. And the Hittite kingdom had fallen.

So it all ties together. And it's just interesting to me that this was the perfect moment for the Israelites to leave Egypt and establish a presence in the Promised Land. 

J.R.: Yeah. When you know what's going on historically, you realize that this is the only time that this could have happened. That Egypt would have never let them leave had this not been the case.

David: Or, you know, a hundred years earlier and they would have wandered right into Hittite territory or something. 

J.R.: End of the story. Right. 

David: You know, later on the sea peoples would have had a firm grasp of that whole region. And it's, yeah, it was just fascinating. 

J.R.: Yeah. Knowing how all that ties together is super interesting. And the sites that we went to kind of painted that picture for us, just like the biblical sites painted the picture for the biblical narrative. Right. 

David: Yeah. So we're going to talk about the Greece trip. You already mentioned, but the next series that we're going to talk about later in the spring. I think we're both really excited about this right? Yeah. And hear us out. We're going to talk about fairy tales. [00:32:00]

J.R.: No, I think, this is great. 

David: Okay. So you turned me onto the Grimm's book of fairy tales, right? And so I'm reading one or two every day.

J.R.: And there's like hundreds of them.

David: Oh, there's like 200, over 200. <Okay. Yeah.> And so we had this experience where I was telling you this morning of what fairytale I was reading and our mom walks into the kitchen and hears us talking. She just looks at us and goes, what are you talking about? 

J.R.: Cutting the daughter's head off? 

David: And I said the fairytale I'm reading. And she just rolls her eyes and, leaves the room.

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. She didn't have any time for us anymore. Look, if we're 50 and she can't have any more control than she does, then, just where did I go wrong? 

David: 50 in there reading fairy tales. 

J.R.: But it is, helpful to see the meaning behind a lot of the fairy tales. And we'll talk about ones like red riding hood and some others, that everybody kind of knows by heart.

But then you kind of break them down and you see that it's telling a deeper story. And a lot of times it's a much deeper story about human [00:33:00] nature, about relationships. And they're just as applicable as absurd as they are. Sometimes they're just as applicable to our relationships and the way we live today.

David: Yeah, and they are enduring stories. You look at the Grimm's Brothers, they went around and actually collected all of these folktales. 

J.R.: Right, right. Yeah, they didn't write them all. 

David: Right, they didn't write them all. 

J.R.: You know, they sort of rewrote things. 

David: And what's interesting too is we think of the Disney versions of some of these. <Right.> And the real versions are actually pretty ... I've read some that I'm sitting there thinking, Oh, where's this one going, you know? 

J.R.: Pretty hardcore. 

David: I wouldn't read this to my kid. 

J.R.: Red Riding Hood is pretty rough. 

David: Yeah. Yes. And there's one in particular, we'll get to that probably in the series. But yeah, they're enduring stories for a reason. For the same reason that myths are enduring stories, that the Bible are these enduring stories, because they capture something much deeper about being human, the human psyche. And so, these stories aren't just handed down because they're fun little [00:34:00]stories. It's because when you actually understand them, they're speaking something very deep about what it means to be human. 

J.R.: Yeah. They speak to you before you understand how it's describing reality. But there's something about the stories that you listen to and it's like, yeah, that's kind of out there, but there's something that resonates. And you don't exactly know what you don't know why. Right. But I think that maybe when we break a few of these down, it'll help you understand why and help us understand how they're trying to describe reality, ultimately, is what they're trying to do. And they're doing it in this ancient way of storytelling and, like I said, they're kind of, absurd on the face of it a lot of times. But they really are I don't know, deeply breaking down the human psyche, the way we think and the way we interact.

 They're fascinating. So we talk, we pick those up all the time. And it's like, man, have you read this one? Have you read the text? 

David: Have you read this one yet? Go read it and tell me what you think of it. 

J.R.: Yeah. Skip ahead. So, and there's some of them, quite honestly, I just throw up my hand and say, I have no idea what this is about and you just got to move [00:35:00] on.

But maybe I'll come back to it.

David: Move on to the next one. But I'm surprised at how many. You know, like I said, I'm about 55 in and I'm surprised at how many I end up thinking about through the day and going. Yeah, I think that's what's being said in this story. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

David: And some of the common themes will reemerge 10 stories later.

J.R.: Sure Yeah, the wicked stepmother is not merely a wicked stepmother. 

David: Apparently, that was a big issue in the Middle Ages based on Grimm's fairy tales: the wicked stepmother. 

J.R.: Yes and eating children. That's another one. That's a bizarre thing. You know, cooking children, and of course, they obviously don't, it's so funny because they say it so quickly, you know. 

David: Yeah, wait, back up. What did you just say?

J.R.: Am I to understand they just put the child in the pot and made a soup out of, you know. And they just casually mentioned it, but it's because it has a deeper meaning behind it. 

So anyway, I'm looking forward to that. That'll be a lot of fun. 

David: Yeah, I am too. We're going to unpack a couple of these stories. And we're still talking about [00:36:00] this, but we're going to tie it into maybe some of the parables of Jesus. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

David: Undecided to be determined here. And yeah, we'll explain how those two fit together because the parables are clearly not meant to be true accounts of something. 

J.R.: Right. They're not literal stories. 

David: They're the same thing, right? They're a story that's meant to stick with you as you go throughout the day, a day later, maybe a week later, it dawns on you and you go, yeah, maybe that's what Jesus was talking about. 

J.R.: Right. Exactly. There's a lot of the fairy tales that have strange similarities to some of the parables.

David: Some of them, yeah. <Yeah.> Tie very clearly together. 

J.R.: We've talked about some of that. That'll be a lot of fun. 

David: Yeah. So that'll round out the spring. We'll take a month off in the summer and then we're going to come back in the fall and we're definitely going to do a series on Ephesians.

<Okay.> Now we've done Colossians and Philippians, so we're going to go back and do Ephesians. One of the first books I wrote was A Journey Through Ephesus. Right. You and I have been to Ephesus. And so we're going to pull in our experiences there. And we're going to do the same thing. We're [00:37:00] going to talk about some of the big themes that you have to recognize in Paul's letter to the Ephesians. And once you recognize them, some of these things just jump off the page at you.

J.R.: What's going on historically in his day and time that we tend to fly past and not quite catch in a quick reading of Ephesians. That'll be great. 

David: Yeah. I always enjoy doing those series on Paul's letters. 

J.R.: We may have to go back. 

David: I think we would actually get a lot more out of it. 

J.R.: Well, it's so funny 'cause when did we go? 2013, 14, something like that? It's been a while. 

David: 2013. That sounds right. 

J.R.: I mean, I don't know. Our first trip was 2008. The years are adding up now and I'm thinking, man, that's been 10 years. You know now we got the pictures. I did a journal so we can kind of get back on track with it. But it's gonna be tough to recall some of those places But no, we had a fantastic time in Ephesus. So that'll be a lot of fun and I think that'll really come true once we start discussing it and yeah, it'll take me back.

David: Yeah, so we might [00:38:00] do another Stranger Things. <Okay.> It's just an annual thing. We'll do Stranger Things 3. 

J.R.: Well, things keep getting strange, man. 

David: If things would just not be strange, we wouldn't have to do this. 

J.R.: I know, I know. So, the New Jersey orbs, the New Jersey drones. 

David: I guess we gotta do something on the drones over New Jersey, yeah.

J.R.: I mean, my goodness. Yeah, you think you've hit the strangest stuff, and then the news tells you otherwise. So, yeah, we were kind of talking about, and we'd love your opinion on Stranger Things if you've heard the series, you get the gist of what we're doing. <Yeah.> We just talked about before we started, before we hit record, we talked about Bitcoin. That'd be kind of fun. Kind of the concept behind that. 

David: I've jotted down another idea or two, but yeah, you're right. If you're listening to this and you're thinking, I'd love to hear them tackle this issue, we would love to hear from you. Let us know and yeah, we'll put it on our list to tackle.

J.R.: And we take modern issues and filter it through the ancient way of thinking and see what that comes up with. I don't think we'll do the New Jersey drones, [00:39:00] but. 

David: I'm sure that's going to be old news by the time. 

J.R.: Who knows, maybe that'll be solved. But yeah, we'll figure it out. Anyway. 

David: One thing will be certain is something strange looms on the horizon that we will be talking about next summer.

J.R.: What do you think's coming in 2025? Put on your conspiracy future hat and tell me, where do you think the wild things are going to go? 

David: Well, I could do the general prognostications that, some politician will be caught in a scandal. That's one of my predictions. 

J.R.: That is not at all a stretch So you're not putting yourself out there in any difficult way. I mean, that's kind of what the new year stuff is always fun. <Yeah.> One of the deals about the new year's what do you think's going to come? You recap the previous year and you talk about what kind of madness. 

David: And make some kind of prediction about some natural disaster will 

J.R.: Yeah. 

David: Will happen. 

J.R.: Right. A hurricane is going to hit somewhere. Yeah. So anyway, so yeah, whatever weird stuff comes down, we'll talk about it <Yeah.> next fall. That'll be good.

David: And one of the last series that we've been talking about and the further out we get, I said this last [00:40:00] year is it's still kind of in formation, so subject to change. But we talked about a short series on Decoding the Bible. 

J.R.: Oh yeah. 

David: We talked about what are the different genres in the Bible ? Are we supposed to read them all the same way? Is the Bible to be taken literally, you know, all those things things that we've actually tackled here and there. But we thought, what if we just did a two or three part series. 

J.R.: Synthesize it and we're still fleshing it out, but yeah, I think that'd be a fun series to do. Kind of outline it and figure out a way to have it all in one spot where you can have a better idea of a lot of the things we talk about on this podcast. Yeah. 

David: So that's the plan. All right, let's do it. We will get started If we're lucky maybe we can even do a couple episodes while we're here But we'll see we always have big plans and then 

J.R.: I know then life happens. 

David: Chores and, yeah, all that happens. Anyway. 

J.R.: Yep. Mom's calling; dinner's ready. So we got to go. Right. 

David: Yep. So that's season three preview. Hope you enjoyed the little sneak peek and we'll get started next [00:41:00] episode on our Greece overview. 

J.R.: All right, let's do it. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: We'll see you next time.