A Journey Through Philippi: Philippians 1 and Citizenship

Embark on a journey into St. Paul's profound letter of Philippians! 📜 Paul spent several weeks in Philippi on his second missionary journey, as recorded in Acts 16, where several notable events took place.  🌐 In Philippians 1, we explore the veiled theme of dual citizenship, a concept that is not obvious in our English translations. 🔍 Explore the historical backdrop of Philippi, a Roman colony, as we decode how Paul, drawing on the language of citizenship, guided the Philippians in reconciling allegiance to Rome with commitment to God's kingdom. 🏛️ Join us for this fascinating discussion of Paul's letter to the Philippians.✨
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Watch our video: The Prison of Paul at Philippi

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to the Series
• 4:05 History of Philippi
• 11:34 Paul's Visit to Philippi
• 26:30 Living as Citizens - Philippians 1:27
• 43:03 Heavenly and Earthly Citizenship

Transcript

Philippians 1

J.R.: [00:00:00] Why wouldn't it be? It's just out of Philip. Huh. It's named after Phillip. 

David: It is out of Phillip, but that's where Philip gets his name. 

J.R.: That's where Philip gets his name. Did Philip like horses? 

David: Hello everyone. Thanks for listening to the Navigating an Ancient Faith podcast. My name is David with me is J.R. 

J.R.: Hey, how's it going?

David: We are actually sitting in the same room.

J.R.: Same room finally. Yeah, this is nice. 

David: That's always a treat, yeah. 

J.R.: That's right. I don't know how many episodes we're going to be able to pull off doing this. We kind of got a quick turnaround, But we'll see how many we can crank out. 

David: Yeah. At least we'll get this first one under our belt. And this first one marks really the first series in season two. We did a little intro a couple of weeks ago. 

J.R.: I enjoyed the intro by the way. <Yeah.> That was fun. But no, our first series and we're jumping into Philippians, right? 

David: Philippians, yes. So, a couple of reasons we're going to look at Philippians. We did a series last season on Colossians - A Journey Through Colossae, [00:01:00] right? Where we kind of hit some of the big themes that set up reading the book. So the idea is this is not a Bible study, right? This is just a way to really pull out the big themes of the book of Philippians. And I thought Colossians turned out pretty well. 

J.R.: And you had written a book on Colossians and so we pulled from that. But Philippians is more interesting to me, because we've actually been there, right? <Right.> So how long, what is it, is it a year and a half? Has it been a year?

David: A year ago last October. Yeah. 

J.R.: Okay. So it has been. Man, it doesn't seem that long. But yeah, you're about a year and a half ago we went to, we were in Philippi. And so yeah, so it puts it a little bit more concrete in my mind. 

David: Yeah. So a couple of reasons we're doing Philippians. The reason you just said we went there. We should have some things to say about some stories when we were walking around the site and <yeah> maybe messing around the countryside. 

J.R.: Don't wear sandals. 

David: That slip. Number one lesson. [00:02:00]

J.R.: Go ahead and write that in your Bible, in the margin somewhere: don't wear sandals when you go to Philippi. These crazy thorns everywhere. They were literally - cause I had some, I didn't have sandals, but I had these mesh type running shoes. <Yes.> Remember, it kept poking through? Yeah, good night. Okay. So ...

David: I had running shoes that I could throw away after the trip, but the soles had basically worn out. And yes, those thorns walking up the Acropolis were sticking through. 

J.R.: We're embedded in the soles of our running shoes. Yeah. So there you go. 

David: Not just one or two. 

J.R.: Yeah, it was crazy. <So the whole...> If you make the visit, hiking boots man or something.

David: Yes. Yes. So that's our takeaway from Philippi. Thanks for listening everyone. 

J.R.: That's all you really need to know. 

David: Yeah. If you do that, you'll be doing good. No, so we hope to share some insights on our time at Philippi into this letter of Philippians. But the second reason too, is I have a new book coming out. 

J.R.: I have heard.

David: You've heard the rumor.

J.R.: I've been reading it. I'm not all the way [00:03:00] through it, but ...

David: Yes. I gave you an advanced copy. 

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. Man, I have been marking a bunch of stuff I disagree with. Yeah. We'll talk about that later. Yeah, no, it's great so far. It's great so far. 

David: Cool, cool. Yeah. So A Journey Through Philippi, it's the third book in this journey series that I've been writing about: A Journey Through Ephesus was the first one; it's actually done really well. A Journey Through Colossae and A Journey Through Philippi now should be available by the time this podcast is released. I will put links in the show notes. At the very least the ebook will be available with a paper back version soon to follow. I am trying in all my spare time to get all the final edits, everything done. 

J.R.: And you don't have much spare time. That's right. 

David: Not at the moment. I do not have much spare time, so But today we're going to start our series on A Journey Through Philippi. We're going to hit chapter one today. And again, this isn't going to be a Bible study. It's not even going to be rehashing what's in the book. But let's start with a little bit of [00:04:00] background about Philippi to set the stage and then we'll get into the key theme of chapter one. 

J.R.: Yeah, well, I just learned a ton being there. Mostly from you some from our host about history of the city and the Roman influence, but yeah, I'll let you take it away. 

David: Well, so to start out with Phillipi is named after Phillip II of Macedon. And we saw his huge statue in Thessaloniki. <Yup.> Remember that the waterfront?

J.R.: Yeah, about 20 miles away.

David: Very close to Philippi. And it was very clear, I think from being in Thessaloniki that, boy, Phillip of Macedon, Alexander The Great, exerted a huge influence on that whole area. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah, obviously I know the name, Alexander The Great. All I really know is the movie, which was pretty good. <Yeah.> Colin Farrell crushed it, did a good job. Enjoyed the movie, Angelina Jolie. 

David: Yeah, we were to believe that she was his mother. 

J.R.: Yeah, I wouldn't buy in that, but yeah. That's fine. It's fine. [00:05:00]

David: No, it's funny because that movie didn't- it got a lot of criticism. I enjoyed the movie, but I'm a sucker again for historical epics. 

J.R.: Well, and I watched it after we came back. <Oh, okay.> So I had not seen it. And so after we came back and of course now I have context and so I really enjoyed it.

David: Yeah. And so Philippi actually gets its name directly from Phillip II, of Macedon. 

J.R.: Alexander's dad, right? 

David: Yeah. Because he came in, he took over the colony. There was gold mines there, silver mines there. So he graciously offered his protection in exchange, you know, for a little bit of the gold and silver. 

J.R.: Yeah. What was the name of the city before it was called Philippi? 

David: It was Krenides. 

J.R.: Krenides, that's right. I remember hearing that, but I've forgotten. 

David: Yeah, Krenides and the name Philippi, again, further, we stayed at a hotel called the I'm going to butcher the name, the Hotel Philippeou or something like that? 

J.R.: Yeah. It was awesome.

David: And it was great hotel, but the owner pointed out that the name actually means [00:06:00]basically the love of horses. 

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. 

David: Remember that?

J.R.: Right, yeah. That's right. 

David: So yeah. So the name of course hippo is horse in Greek and phileo is love. <Right.> And that's really where they get the name Philippi, 

J.R.: Why wouldn't it be? It's just out of Philip. Huh. It's named after Phillip. 

David: It is out of Phillip, but that's where Philip gets his name. 

J.R.: That's where Philip gets his name. Did Philip like horses?

David: Phillip apparently loved horses.

J.R.: That's why his parents named him that. 

David: I guess so. And actually, remember in the movie - <Philip. Okay.> Remember the movie? They were training horses. 

J.R.: Oh yeah, yeah. That's right. 

David: And Colin Farrell has his favorite horse. 

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. Okay. 

David: And so it's actually not a stretch <Okay. Not too bad.> that they loved horses. 

J.R.: Okay there you go. I was lost for a second.

David: It's all coming together now.

J.R.: The etimology of the name, Phillip, right? 

David: Yeah. So the second big event that happened there and we kind of witnessed this, we got to kind of touch and feel and be at that location. This was another thing that our hotel owner pointed out was that it is also the site of the Battle of [00:07:00] Philippi between Anthony & Octavian and Brutus and Cassius in 42 BC. 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. He gave us a really cool explanation of that battle. He showed us the hill where Anthony kind of surveyed the battle and Octavius and Brutus were in the actual town, right? They were kind of ...

David: Brutus and Cassius were in the town against the mountain side, yes. They had the high ground. 

J.R.: Right. And they had the city walls, however, they were constructed. Yeah, so they showed us a little hill and he was right. It was all completely flat. It was a plain out there. And there was this little hill out there that you could see kind of got a vantage point. <Yes.> We actually drove out there. Not much to see now, but other than the hill. 

David: Yes. Yes, there it is. There was a hill. 

J.R.: Yeah. We took a picture. I don't know why, but you know. 

David: Yeah, but that was the famous battle is one of the turning points in the civil war, there the Battle of Philippi. Right? And so it's interesting to relate this town that Paul visits, you know, within about a hundred years of a town that[00:08:00] very much shaped Roman history because Octavian and Antony really should have lost. Again, Brutus and Cassius had the high ground, they had the city. And yet Octavian and Antony pulled it out. Right? Anthony, of course being the military general, he probably had an upper hand in a way. 

J.R.: Kind of a genius. But yeah, I, pulled the Wikipedia article on Battle of Philippi. Pretty famous battle. Interesting. 

David: Yeah. And so as a result of that battle, that brought an end into the war. And so another thing that's really interesting that really plays into Paul's letter of Philippians is that Octavian and Antony end up settling veterans in Philippi.

J.R.: Okay. 

David: Hey, we won. Here's the spoils of the war. You get this plot of farm land outside of the city of Philippi. 

J.R.: Yeah. Which is pretty common when Rome came in and conquered an area. 

David: Right, Settle a bunch of veterans there. That kept them out of Rome. Cause you know, you don't want a bunch of rowdy retired veterans bored in the city of [00:09:00] Rome. 

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. Ocean's not too far away. Vacation there, that'd be great. 

David: Yeah. Yeah. So it was heavily settled by Roman military veterans. And then becomes a Roman colony and that's also important.

J.R.: Right, and this is about the time that Paul shows up, right? 

David: It was, yeah. So we're getting closer to the time when Paul shows up. But as a Roman colony, it was meant to be really a mini Rome. That's something important to understand. <Right.> So the idea was that in the whole region of Macedonia, and, you know, beyond that, you didn't have to visit Rome. You just had to visit Philippi and you would see everything that Rome had to offer. 

J.R.: Yeah. And as, Rome's territory expanded, it was important to kind of set up these small mini-Romes to let people know of their strength, their power and also as a sort of base of operations I mean, listen, you're how far from Rome? The kingdom's expanded quite a ways at this point. 

David: Right. So a threat from the [00:10:00] north. You had a Roman administrative center in Philippi, full of veterans. Right? <Yeah.> That could easily be called back up into service. <Yeah.> Yeah, and so you kind of had a natural defense there. 

 Yeah. So that's important to keep in mind. Philippi was set up to be a mini-Rome. It was designated a Roman colony. And it's interesting because even though Thessalonica was a larger city, right? And served as maybe more of the administrative center of that region. <Right.> Amphipolis also was an important city in that region, but Philippi was the one designated as a Roman colony. And that's an important distinction. 

J.R.: Okay. What's the distinction between the colony and <well> and a city that was conquered by Rome?

David: Yeah. So a colony was actually set up to really showcase Rome and their culture. So the Roman forum. Right. The big place in the city, in the middle of the archeological site, the Roman forum. <Right. Sure.> The theater was expanded, right. [00:11:00] There were a lot of perks and benefits to being a Roman colony. <Okay.> And so Roman politicians, leaders would have been there. Of course you had all the military veterans too. <Right.> And that's the difference between say Philippi and just, you know, Berea or Amphipolis or other cities around the region who happened to be conquered by Rome, but were not designated as a colony. 

J.R.: And also served as a gateway into the east kind of Turkey and all that area to the east. For a time that was the first big Roman city that you would come into if you're coming in from the east. 

David: Right. So, that leads us, actually, that's a good segway to Paul's visit to Rome, which is recorded in Acts chapter 16. But Paul crosses over into Greece - what we would now say Greece - through Neapolis, right? The text says they ported in Neapolis. Well, Neapolis is the modern city of Kavala. <Yup.> And we know it's just a hop, skip, and a jump over to Philippi. 

J.R.: Yup. We had a great fish dinner there. <We did.> [00:12:00] Yeah, right on the ocean. It was great. 

David: We did. Yes. And it is connected by the Via Egnatia, which is the Roman road that leads all the way across Greece. And from there you could hop a ship to Italy. 

J.R.: Right. Which also played a hugely important role of Paul's second missionary journey. He essentially followed the Via Egnatia. 

David: Right. Yes. Yeah, so to your point, when you were crossing over from Asia Minor, what's now Turkey, into Greece you had to go through Philippi. There wasn't really any other way around it. <Right. That's right. Yeah.> And from there you know, you could scatter into the main land or across east and things like that. Or I guess what west, I'm trying to picture it on a map. But yeah, so you had to go through Philippi, first of all. <Yeah.> So they would have been a pretty wealthy city, too, you know, first stop-over, trading routes, travelers, everything like that. They would have reaped the economic benefit of that. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

David: So that leads us to Acts chapter 16. We're not going to go through all these events, but Acts chapter 16. The majority of the chapter talks about Paul's [00:13:00] time in Philippi. And it's always interesting because the Bible says, things like, " they spent a couple of days there." Well, when you add up all the events, it was probably more like maybe three, four weeks? <Right.> Who knows, you know. 

J.R.: Yeah, we kind of tend to think, well, if I go on vacation, it's pretty much a week, maybe a couple of weeks. With Paul, it's probably more like a month or two. 

David: Yeah. So the first thing that happens when they reach Philippi is they go to the riverside to find a place of prayer, which there's some significance in that. There wasn't a Jewish synagogue in Philippi, right? And they find a group of women praying. And Lydia is one of them. <That's right.> And Lydia accepts the message that Paul is teaching about Jesus Christ and she becomes a prominent figure in Acts chapter 16.

J.R.: A key convert to Christianity. That's right. 

David: And of course that brings us also to some of our travels there, we went to the site of Lydia's baptism.

J.R.: Yeah. Where she was baptized, the traditional site. Which our hotel host [00:14:00] also told us was an interesting site in Greek mythology. <Yeah, that's right.> Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was one of the most fascinating things that we had learned on this trip. 

David: That's right. So this site of Lydia's baptism was also a traditional site where it was said that Persephone was pulled into the underworld by Hades. 

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. 

David: And her mother Demeter was not very happy about that.

J.R.: Sure. As you can imagine.

David: Yes. Not a good thing when your children are abducted by Hades. 

J.R.: That's right. But yeah, he found her beautiful. And so he kind of tricked her into pulling her into the underworld. 

David: Right. And as the myth goes Demeter vows to retrieve her daughter. She eats a pomegranate seed, which means she cannot leave permanently the realm of the underworld. <Right.> But as a compromise, she can visit her daughter half of the year and the other half she returns to the earth. Now there's a significance to that because when [00:15:00] Demeter is in the underworld visiting Persephone, right? 

J.R.: Goddess of nature, right?

David: Goddess of nature. Yeah. Yeah. That the earth - it's the winter time - and the earth grows cold, stops producing fruit. <Yup.> The ground becomes barren. And so that's the myth that explains why that happens. <That's right.> When Demeter's time is up, she returns and of course springtime happens. Flowers start blooming. It's time to plant crops, et cetera, et cetera. 

J.R.: She has returned. Yep. That's right. If you hate, if you hate the winter. It does no good. You know, shaking your fist at the sky. It's because Demeter is in the underworld. So that's right. Take it up with her.

David: She will return. 

J.R.: Yeah, she's visiting her daughter. Let's cut her some slack.

David: Yeah, no. So that was fascinating because one of the things that our hotel owner was talking about is that Paul chose that site specifically because he wanted to retell the story. 

J.R.: Right. Because it was already what they would call a famous significant site -

David: of death and [00:16:00] rebirth. 

J.R.: Right. Yes, but in Greek mythology. Right? Right. So Paul is intentionally chose that to overlay the Christian story over top of the Greek mythology story. Right. 

David: Right. And it would no longer signify the death and rebirth of Persephone, of the earth, it would be the death and rebirth, really of the believer, right? Yeah. 

J.R.: There's a church there right now. <Yeah.> And there was no mention of Persephone and Hades.

David: Yeah, so that was really interesting. 

J.R.: He pulled that off. 

David: Yeah. So well done, Paul. Yeah, he did that. So, yeah. So that's the first thing that happens. It says Lydia and her entire household followed Christ. 

J.R.: Right. And Lydia is traditionally the evangelist of Europe essentially, right? I mean, she is the one who carried the gospel message. 

David: The first convert is - so what's intereting is that in the book of Philippians, Lydia is not mentioned, at all. 

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. 

David: So there's some speculation that she [00:17:00] had moved on. She might've even been in Rome by that time. Yeah. But ... 

J.R.: Well, she was, she was a seller of purple. It does say that in Acts. <Right.> We got the backstory on that. That if you're a seller of purple, you probably had contacts in Rome because they were the predominant purchasers of this very expensive, very fine cloth. <Yes.> And so she probably was back and forth to Rome anyway. And so yes, that may be why she's not mentioned in the letter to the Philippian church.

David: Right, yeah, yeah. So that's the first event. The second one is one time when Paul's going down to the river, he runs into a slave girl, who and it depends on what version you're reading, but a slave girl who could tell the future or fortune telling. 

J.R.: Yeah. And, and the Oracle, right? 

David: Yeah. So the interesting thing is that Paul finally gets - you almost get the picture that Paul's had his fill and he just turns around and just says, "Enough, in the name of Jesus, be gone."

J.R.: Right. That's right. 

David: That's the spirit leaves [00:18:00] her. What's interesting though, is in the text, the actual name for the spirit that that girl has is a Python spirit.

J.R.: Right, the Pythian spirit.

David: Yeah. Okay. The Pythian spirit, right. Yeah, and of course that would be associated with <Delphi> Delphi, the Delphic Oracle. 

J.R.: Were there too. Yeah. Yeah. And so that tied a lot of things together. She was more than likely - yeah, there was not one Oracle obviously this position was held for thousands of years in Delphi. So there obviously wasn't one Oracle. There were several women that would be trained and they would be understudies. And then they would be the Oracle for a certain amount of time. And so there's a thought that maybe this girl had either trained with the Oracle or might have been a previous Oracle herself.

David: Or was simply just possessed by - if you go all the way back, and again, this would jump out to the original hearers, but a Python spirit, which would signify this Pythian spirit that was the same spirit that possessed the Oracle at Delphi. Right. Which gave her, her unbelievable [00:19:00] ability to foretell the future. 

J.R.: Right. Delphi was the cave where the Python lived. This Python spirit.

David: And the God Apollo comes, slays the Python.

J.R.: More Greek mythology. Yeah, but that was the location. So she was possessed by that same spirit, whether she was there or not. It doesn't matter, but she was possessed by that same spirit. Yeah. 

David: Yeah. And Paul throws a wrench in the whole business plan there. 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's just interesting that she was, you know, it's easy to look back on this kind of fortune telling and think, well, you know, it's a con just like it's a bit of a con today. You see it on YouTube or wherever.

David: The phone - there used to be the phone. <Yeah. Yeah.> You could phone the psychic, the psychic hotline, right?

J.R.: Ms. Cleo man. So she had her commercials, right? There's a, there's actually a Netflix document on it. It was great, but, yeah. So the whole psychic network that was us, not Celine beyond what was her name? Dionne Warwick. Yeah, let's not. <Oh, that's right.> Right. Dionne Warwick was a big, a subscriber to the psychic network, right? Not Celine Dion. 

David: [00:20:00] Yeah. And Ms. Cleo. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. So we hear something like she was a fortune teller and we think, you know, a little scam artists, Ms. Cleo. <That's right.> But in the original context, this was much bigger than that. This was something. It actually says, "She made a great deal of wealth for her owners." Because she was just the slave girl. Right. Which indicates that there was some accuracy to her predictions. Otherwise, why would you go to this? 

J.R.: There's some value going on. You know, now whether she was always accurate, whether she really could see the future, that's another conversation. But yes, she made a lot of money for her owners. 

David: Well, look, I think it's the same situation that we saw in Delphi with the Oracle. I had people ask me when we came back, you know, "Well, so is that just a big scam?" You know? Well, clearly there's something more going on. I mean, the entire city built up around the Oracle's ability to accurately, in some measure to <Right.> be able to [00:21:00] tell what was going on, in the spiritual world. Yeah. In the future. 

J.R.: Yeah. Right. A couple of centuries is a pretty long con, yeah. That's a tough one to pull off.

David: Miss Cleo didn't last that long. 

J.R.: That's right. She made it for a couple years before they figured out that she wasn't even from the Caribbean. 

David: Maybe I'm wasting my $5.99 a minute phone call to her. <Yeah.> After a while when some of these things aren't happening, but , regardless, it's an interesting idea though, that it was a Python spirit that this girl held, and that would be strong connections then to Delphi and the Oracle. 

J.R.: Right. And there's clearly something to it. 

David: Yes. Yeah. And the last thing that happens then is because of this, they get mad at Paul because their meal ticket just got lost because this girl was no longer possessed by the spirit. 

J.R.: Which is another interesting thing, to go back to the girl. Clearly it wasn't a con or else the fact that he cast the spirit out - 

David: That's true. <Wouldn't have.> If it were a con, they just could've kept going. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah. Yeah. They just, you just [00:22:00] keep the con going, but clearly Paul did something, right? You know. And her handlers recognized it right away. 

David: Well, and there. We can... 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. We may have to move on. 

David: This could be a rabbit trail, but there's, there's also indication in the text that this was a spirit that troubled Paul. This was not just Paul rolling his eyes and moved on. 

J.R.: Right, yeah. She kept pestering Paul. <Yes.> And Paul recognized it as a spirit that was pestering him. 

David: And Paul recognized that this was not a spirit to be messed with lightly. <Right.> So yeah. So all that was going on. 

J.R.: Her handlers are upset now that this is gone. 

David: They're upset. They go to the city leaders and they say, "These men are" - it's interesting the way they put it - "these men are disrupting our way of life." I'm sure they are. They're the outsiders, right? They're the strangers, the outsiders appear in our town and all of a sudden, you know, everything's going to hell in a hand basket. 

J.R.: Yeah, exactly. 

David: And so the city leaders do what any good politician would do is they cave to the mob and throw Paul and Silas in jail. 

J.R.: Right? Yeah. Without any [00:23:00] charges, but this is what people demand. <Yes.> That's how it works, right. 

David: Yeah. And so what's interesting about that is that we saw the site of Paul's prison. 

J.R.: We think so. 

David: We probably, well, between the couple of sites we looked at, we probably saw the real site. 

J.R.: Right. We had the fortune of going to the traditional site, that had been actually converted at one time into a chapel. And so there were some obviously faded paintings on the wall, things like that. But we had an archeological site students group right next to us. And they knew, we were obviously coming to seed the prison of Paul and they just kind of mentioned, Hey, that's probably not it. 

David: Yeah. Yeah. In fact, the one tour guide was kind of dismissive of people taking pictures. He's like, ah, look at those idiots. They're taking pictures of some random cistern. But we did an entire episode on this, so we don't have to rehash this, but we will put a link to that episode, The Prison of St. Paul. It's on YouTube. Yeah.[00:24:00] So you can take a listen to that. So it is in this prison then that overnight Paul and Silas are held. An earthquake happens. <Yup.> The jailor thinks this is it I'm done. And Paul and Silas said, "No, no, no. We're just sitting here."

J.R.: Yeah, we haven't run away.

David: Yeah. We haven't run away. Right. And the jailor in his entire household says, "I want what you guys have."

J.R.: Right? Who wouldn't run when the gates of the jail had fallen open <Yeah.> from the gods that created the earthquake, right? That's gotta be what he's thinking. Yeah. 

David: Yeah. We had quite a line of storms come through yesterday, in fact. And can you imagine if it blew open the doors of the local prison and the warden went in and all the prisoners are just sitting there. 

J.R.: No, no we're here.

David: Just so you know, we didn't leave. 

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. I got my court date tomorrow. So you didn't want to mess that up. 

David: Yeah. So that's what happens. And then as a result the city leaders basically, in a very humorous story, basically tell Paul and [00:25:00] Silas that, "Hey, this is a big misunderstanding. Why don't you guys <Right? Yeah.> Just leave town quietly." And of course, Paul- I love it - says, "No, you are going to escort us out of this jail." <Yeah, yeah, yeah.> Tail between legs, right. 

J.R.: Yep. Hold my hand while we're doing this, right? 

David: Yeah. Parade us through the forum. Make it clear that you falsely imprisoned us. And the reason was, is because he was a Roman citizen. 

J.R.: That's right. That's right. 

David: And that's going to play into what we're about to talk about. 

J.R.: You can't, just lightly take the Roman citizenship. Because being a Roman citizen had a lot of weight behind it. Yeah. There was something that, yeah, it wasn't just, oh, this guy's from DC. We better show him some respect. <Right.> A little bit more than that. 

David: Right. So clearly, a theme begins to emerge out of the Acts chapter 16 account that Philippi is a Roman colony. Roman soldiers would have had their citizenship. Right, that's part of the benefit of being retired veterans, given land around Philippi. [00:26:00] <Yeah.> It was a mini-Rome. And, here the city officials find out that they had falsely imprisoned a Roman citizen. You can imagine this is not going to play well.

J.R.: They're like, oh crap, this guy's from Rome. 

David: Yeah. 

J.R.: yeah, it's not like they just locked them up in a comfy cell. <No, no, no.> They'd beat him up pretty good. 

David: They beat him. They whip them in public. And so, yeah, Paul wanted to make sure that everyone knew that this is how city leader's treated a Roman citizen. 

J.R.: Right, they messed with the wrong bull. 

David: Yeah. So all that's interesting because it plays into the theme of Philippians chapter one, which we're gonna talk about now. So we spent a lot of time giving you some background. But, Philippians chapter one. Again, this is not a Bible study. We're not going to cover. In fact, we're just going to cover a couple of verses here. But this is a theme that's easy to miss. But it plays into what we just talked about. <Right.> Philippians chapter one, verse 27 through 30. 

J.R.: It says, "Only let your manner of life [00:27:00] be worthy of the gospel of Christ. So, whether I come to see you or am absent, I may hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit with one mind, striving side by side for the faith of the gospel and not frightened in anything by your opponents. This is a clear sign to them, of their destruction, but of your salvation, and that from God. For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ, you should not only believe in him, but also suffer for his sake, engaged in the same conflict that you saw I had, and now here that I still have."

David: All right. So it may not jump out at anyone as how this ties into this whole idea of the Roman colony and citizenship. <Right.> But it's really interesting because there's a word in verse 27, that actually signals that this is what Paul is talking about. That this is what he has in mind when he's writing this.

J.R.: Yeah. You had to point it out to me because I I'd heard I guess it was a different translation. 

David: Well, the NIV says whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel.

J.R.: Conduct [00:28:00] yourselves in a manner. That's right. There's something behind that. 

David: Yes. So if you go back to the original Greek, that phrase to conduct yourselves in a manner, is actually the Greek word politeuomai. <Okay.> It comes from the word polis, which is the Greek word for the city or the city state. In other words, the political organization behind a city, like Athens or Thessalonica or Philippi, right? <Okay.> the word politeuomai literally means to conduct yourselves as a citizen. <Okay.> So it means you are a citizen. Now go live this way. 

J.R.: Right, right. Yeah. And we don't really have a English word that kind of captures that as well as ... 

David: No. Not, not, something as clear as politeuomai.

J.R.: Yeah. So all we do is say conduct yourselves in a manner worthy. But even that doesn't capture the idea of manner worthy of what? Well, we say a manner worthy of heaven or the gospel. <Yeah.> But it's no, no, no. It's, it's conduct yourselves as an [00:29:00] ambassador as an official representative, as a citizen of the gospel or a citizen of heaven. 

David: That's a good way to put it. <Right.> Yeah. Consider yourself an ambassador representing the citizenship you possess. Yeah, that's kind of the fullest expression of that word <yeah.> politeuomai. That in our English versions, we just say conduct yourselves, but it's actually linked to this idea of citizenship. 

J.R.: Right. That's right. And considering, you know, the changes that we talked about at the beginning of the podcast. The history of it was this simple little town. Rome comes in. They convert it to a Roman colony, Phillip's wife loves the area; she wants to be there. There's lots of changes there. There's lots of connection and roots back to Rome. And so Paul's not just using this word lightly. He's using a very intentional word. <Yes.> And it ties in with the city itself. 

David: And so there's another good point that you just made that it's the only place we actually see [00:30:00] this word in Paul's writings.

J.R.: Oh, is that right?

David: Which means he chose it specifically, right? <Yeah. Yeah.> He could have just said, you know, "Hey, be good people." <Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.> Be decent people. Yeah. Act right.

J.R.: Yeah, don't screw around.

David: Yeah, but he chose this word because I mean, what a better place that it would be picked up on and related to than in this Roman colony of Philippi.

J.R.: Yeah, that's right.

David: So what did it mean to be a Roman citizen? Because probably, I read something that said probably a third of the population in Philippi were Roman citizens. Of course, all the elites would have been, the families of the veterans who were settled there would have been. Because once you were Roman citizen, if your father and mother were Roman citizens, then you were also Roman citizen, right? So let's talk a little bit about Roman citizenship, because I think this is the backdrop behind one of the big themes of the entire letter of Philippians. 

<Okay.> You could be born into it, right? Acts 22, Paul was born a Roman citizen. <Right.> And that's important because that's a little higher up on the scale then how others obtain the Roman [00:31:00]citizenship. <Right.> So it's important to understand that Paul was born a Roman citizen.

J.R.: Yeah. Roman blood.

David: Yeah. You could have it given to you. So again, when Philippi became a Roman colony, citizenship was no doubt granted to a lot of people who had influence in the city - to veterans. Now they weren't born into it, but it was given to them. <Right.> Not everyone in the city. <Right.> But clearly, probably the elites of the city were granted a citizenship status. 

J.R.: You could earn it by being a benefit to say the elites of the city. So maybe they fought for them or something like that. So you didn't have Roman blood, but yeah, you're valuable enough to the powerful people that make the decisions that they grant you Roman citizenship. Okay. That makes sense. 

David: Roman citizens who had slaves, there are accounts were in their will when they died, they granted freedom to their slaves and sometimes even citizenship. <Oh, wow. Okay.> And you could also purchase it. So if you saved up your [00:32:00] money, you save up your money for that Roman citizenship.

J.R.: What does that cost?

David: I'm not sure, but one of the interesting figures in Roman history is Pompey Magnus or Pompey The Great, <Okay.> who was aligned with Caesar and then turns on him. But he was actually someone who purchased their citizenship. And because of it, Roman elites always looked down a little bit on Pompey. He had a bit of a complex, even though his known as Pompey The Great, Pompey Magnus. You know, <That's right.> He was kind of the new kid on the - he had to buy it. 

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. When you win the lottery and you show up to the country club, we know you didn't earn it. Yeah, yeah, there you go. 

David: You're not a blue blood. <That's right.> You're just what your, your poser here. 

J.R.: You're in here on a technicality. 

David: Yeah, your card, I see your country club card, but come on.

J.R.: I'm not buying it. Yeah, that's right.

David: So all that's how you could obtain your citizenship. So what's also interesting is women could become citizens, which was pretty progressive at that time. 

J.R.: Yeah. That's that wasn't normal for that era.

David: [00:33:00] Right, yeah. So that's who could become Roman citizens. So what did citizenship get you? Well, you can imagine that you had to pay a much lower tax rate, or no taxes at all, right? So, 

J.R.: Yeah, sure. Which is always interesting because the elites, really of any ancient time they got away without paying any taxes. Whereas everything's progressive now, you know, the more you make, the more you pay, right? Yeah. But no, they got away with it all together. 

David: Yeah. So Rome would conquer a territory. You know, some of the elites would become citizens and then everyone else kind of had to pay the burden of all that. That's how that worked in Rome. Some other things about being a citizen is you could draw up a legal will and then legally leave your estate to your family, which was kind of a big deal because if you weren't, yeah, because if you weren't a citizen and you died, it was, could be a free for all right. 

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. So a little bit, yeah, early property rights, which doesn't show up [00:34:00]until a lot later. A little touch of that. That's good. 

David: So you could have property rights, you could pursue the cursus honorum, which is the Roman career in politics. We're going to talk about that in a later episode. <Okay.> But it's, it's a Latin word for, you know, basically the way of honor, which was a political path in Rome. <Okay.> So citizenship allowed you to say, hold certain offices, to serve in the Roman Senate. <Okay.> Citizenship was the start of all that.

J.R.: So the Ivy league path, right? <Yeah.> Yeah. There you go. 

David: And the right to a fair trial also. 

J.R.: Which is, which is funny. Because, yeah, if you're not a Roman citizen, we have all the right to give you an unfair trial. Or to not try you at all. We just beat the crap out of you and throw you in jail, which is what happened to Paul. 

David: So that sheds light on the whole incident with Paul, right.

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. <Because citizenship ...> We gotta be fair to this guy. <Yeah.> We have to actually treat this guy like a human being. 

David: And also when Paul is, what in Caesaria, [00:35:00] he actually appeals to Caesar. Which was his right, because he was a citizen.

J.R.: Yeah. That's right. 

David: And so Paul's citizenship plays very prominently in his missionary journeys and ultimately how he ends up in Rome. 

J.R.: Yeah. It puts him in front of people with power that didn't have to pay attention to somebody who didn't have Roman citizenship. 

David: Yeah. Yeah. There are also responsibilities that came with citizenship. And I, yeah, this is interesting because especially today, we so many people clamor for their rights. But we don't really think about what responsibilities does my citizenship kind of commit me to. 

J.R.: We want the benefits, but we're not so quick to embrace the responsibility. 

David: So as a Roman citizen, you were expected to defend the city. <Sure.> Right. If it was under attack. <Yeah.> You were expected to participate in public life, expected to be active in whatever local political gatherings we're there. Right? And really ultimately you were to embody what it [00:36:00]meant to be Roman. 

J.R.: Yeah. You were to reflect Rome, <Yes.> to the rest of the world, <Yeah.> to non-Romans. <Yes.> 

David: And that, was another important aspect of Roman citizenship. Responsibility is, Hey, you represent Rome when you walk around, right. The way you conduct yourself. <Right.> Which ties back then to our word, right? Conduct yourselves in a manner <Right.> worthy of the gospel. 

J.R.: And you think about modern day citizenship: what does it mean to be a citizen in the United States or a citizen of a state or, or any other country? You know, you've got the benefits, you've got the infrastructure. We drive on nice roads for the most part. We have the protection of a military, we're allowed to move around the states. So all these things are benefits: protection, trade, movement, infrastructure. <Yeah.> All those are benefits. But then there's also the responsibility side, that, yeah, we need to reflect ourselves. We need to operate within the law. We need to be willing to defend when it comes necessary and you just can't have one without the other. And I think you can't [00:37:00]simply take the benefits without properly shouldering the responsibility of that citizenship. And you're right, there's a bit of a movement today that demands their rights as citizenship without shouldering any responsibility. <Yeah.> Or at least not talking about that.

David: Well, the extent of the responsibility, I think for most people is to put on your little, I votedsticker once every four years. 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. To write to, put a background on your Instagram. 

David: Yes. See, I'm living as a citizen.

J.R.: Yeah, yeah. Can't you see? Yeah.

David: So, but there's a lot more to it than that. 

J.R.: Cheap virtue. Yeah. They, they want the easy virtue, right. 

David: If you're wearing a sticker, though. Good for you. Yeah, you did your part. 

J.R.: Yeah. Sorry to offend.

David: Yeah. We didn't mean to come off like that. But anyway, the point is that Roman citizenship carried a lot more expectations than I think we have today. <Yeah.> That you, you as a, you know, we live in America. So as an American citizen, you would say you represent America as you walk around. <Yeah.> You are expected to [00:38:00] defend America, you're expected to vote. You're expected to be active in your community. <Sure> Right? Yeah. Whether it's a school board or, you know, city office or something like that. All those things would have gone with that idea of citizenship.

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. But what Paul's talking about is more like dual citizenship, right? 

David: Yeah. That's what seems to unfold as you start to read the letter of Philippians.

J.R.: Right, okay. So further on, he's going to kind of untangle this idea of citizenship and we are really to be acting as dual citizens. 

David: So Paul is not just writing this letter to say, Hey, be good Roman citizens. Right? But, that word ... 

J.R.: or good heavenly citizens. <Yeah. Yeah.> Not necessarily by itself, right? 

David: But that word is a key point to something that Paul was going to allude to throughout the letter. Because he's really going to raise the issue of what does it mean to be a citizen of heaven? And what does it mean to be a Roman citizen and a citizen of heaven? 

J.R.: Right, right. I think in 2 Corinthians, he says we're [00:39:00] called to be ambassadors, which is a great word. <Right.> Now, I don't know the Greek etymology of that word, but you know, my Bible sends ambassadors, which carries a lot of weight. <Yeah.> What that exactly means that idea of dual citizenship. I'm representing one place, but I'm living in another place. 

David: Yeah. That's the interesting idea of that idea of an ambassador, right? <Right.> if I were the American ambassador to Greece, it doesn't mean I just get to go live in Greece and I can't wait to get back to America. <Right. Right.> It means that I represent American values ...

J.R.: and American interests in Greek. In Greece. Yes. 

David: And so that kind of sheds some light on that idea of what it means to be ambassadors for Christ. 

J.R.: Right. Yeah, that we're representing God's kingdom in the physical world. 

David: Yes. Yeah, we are here now. This is where we've been placed. The physical earthly realm. America, Greece, wherever you're listening to this, you know, whatever citizenship you hold, you are meant to represent the [00:40:00] interest of Christ, where you are right now.

J.R.: In this world. Right. And that should be your priority. <Yeah.> But that's, but it's not your only priority, you know? It's basically a hierarchy. We're going to put God's kingdom at the top, but we also need to engage in the culture because we're ambassadors, because we're representing. <Yeah.> Okay. 

David: And Paul makes this a little clearer in Philippians chapter three. Just so people think, well, you guys are reading into this, but in Philippians chapter three, verse 20, he actually kind of makes this explicit, that he says, "Our citizenship is in heaven and we eagerly await a savior from there. The Lord Jesus Christ." Okay. So in chapter three, he makes clear what he was alluding to. What's a little bit easy to miss in chapter one, right. That he's talking about citizenship. <Right.> Yeah. So our citizenship is in heaven. So how did their Roman citizenship fit with their heavenly citizenship. And just interesting because Paul actually served as a pretty good model of that. 

J.R.: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:41:00] So outside of the gospels, what he used his Roman citizenship when he needed to. <Yeah.> And it got him places that he, otherwise couldn't go. But his priority was clearly the kingdom. Yes, God's kingdom, right.

David: And he wasn't afraid to assert his Roman citizenship. <Right.> In fact there's another instance even, and I didn't write it down, but someone was about to beat Paul. And Paul says, "Is it legal for you to beat a Roman citizen?" You remember this? Yeah. And the guy basically says, "Hey, now, that's not something lightly to be thrown around." In fact, he says, " I paid a lot of money for my citizenship." And you remember Paul's reply?

J.R.: No, I don't.

David: Paul says "I was born a Roman citizen." 

J.R.: There you go. Boom, trump card. Mike drop. 

David: And it's an interesting conversation, cause it's that whole idea, right? Is this guy said, "Hey, don't mess around - Roman citizenship. That's not something to be thrown around. I paid a lot of money for mine." Paul says, "Well, I was born one." 

J.R.: You better not fake it. Yeah. And he said I'm blood. [00:42:00] Woops. Yep. Yep. There you go. 

David: And the guy backs off.

J.R.: Yeah, so shut it. 

David: So, we've mentioned now several incidences where Paul pulls his Roman citizenship out of his back pocket. 

J.R.: Yeah. Plays the card. Yup. 

David: Yup. He doesn't hesitate to do that. So I think what Paul's doing here is he's setting up this idea of probably a lot in the church in Philippi also held Roman citizenship. Some, a lot, probably didn't, you know. There would have been a lot of slaves and yeah, just commoners. But Paul was actually trying to get them to start to think about what it meant as closely as they held the Roman citizenship, what it meant to be a citizen of heaven and how those two were going to play out. 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. It was the perfect metaphor for the church in Philippi. You know, I mean, it really sunk in and it wouldn't have worked in other - Colossae or some of these other towns that he wrote letters to. But in Philippi, man, that really resonated. It's almost like the light bulb went off in his head while he was writing this letter. It's like, oh man, I've got a perfect way to describe it that you guys are going to understand. Dual [00:43:00] citizenship. You're ambassadors, right? 

David: Yeah. So that really begs the question then for us. So this is the thing that Paul has put out there. This is the theme that they would have recognized and immediately started to wrestle with. <Right.> And I think for us, then it kind of raises the question. We've alluded to this a little bit is, what does it mean for us today to be Christians, as you would say, ambassadors, right? And also American citizens or citizens of the UK or wherever you might be a citizen. How do we balance that? And I gotta be honest, that's something I have thought about for a while now. 

J.R.: Well, and I've said this, who knows how many times - I love the word, but the idea of tension. You know, because when you say that idea of tension, because we see extremes, we see separatists, we see the Amish or other separatist group that pretty much their whole intention is to separate themselves from the world, to block outsiders from coming in. They just basically kind of group up and do their own thing. And, I [00:44:00] don't know enough about the Amish community to know if they think of themselves as American citizens. But they clearly, <Right.> yeah, they clearly are separatists. They're pulling away from everything. <Right.> And the idea of tension says that there's not really a middle ground, but here's where you should be. It's that you almost should wrestle with the two extremes. You know, what would be the opposite of somebody who separates themselves? You know, I don't know, but, you're wrestling , with that idea and, 

David: Well, the opposite of that would be this nationalism that we see, right?

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. So we see a lot of that too. Yeah, you're exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. So wrestling between that tension of being a separatist and saying, Nope, I, you know, I'm not a citizen of anything other than heaven and this is where I'm going to be. And I'm going to try to wall myself off as much as I possibly can. Or, you're exactly right, the other extreme of saying, Nope, I'm a red blooded American and apple pie and baseball, and you know that that's a [00:45:00] priority and your faith somehow comes second to that <Right.> identity. We'd call it maybe a cultural Christian. 

David: Yeah, the idea is that, you know, look, the Bible says we're going to go to heaven one day. I'm a Christian. But here on earth, I'm an American or, you know, I'm a European, or I'm this. <Right.> I'll worry about my heavenly citizenship when I get to heaven. 

J.R.: Yeah. And, I'll act within the laws of my citizenship, but otherwise there really shouldn't be any moral implications of what the Bible or what heaven pushes on my life as a citizen of America. Or wherever. 

David: Yeah, I think you're right. Those are the two extremes that we can fall into. And it is a matter of the tension between the two. In fact, I like to think of, I've been thinking a lot about these ideas of having your hierarchies in order, right? 

J.R.: Oh, yeah, we love hierarchies. 

David: I've been thinking more about this idea of, because a hierarchy allows you to hold both. Right? <Right.> But you have to prioritize which one <Yeah.> is [00:46:00] first. 

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. 

David: And I think for me, that's a more helpful picture: that look, the Bible is clear. Let's be honest, that you are first and foremost, citizens of heaven, right? And in fact, the verse I just read in Philippians 3:20, Paul says as much. He says, "but you are citizens of heaven."

J.R.: Right, that's right.

David: I don't care if you're a Roman citizen.

J.R.: But render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.

David: Right. the way he modeled it, he wasn't saying, so turn in your Roman citizenship.

J.R.: Right, yeah, that's right.

David: He wasn't saying renounced Rome.

J.R.: Right, right. He used it. He used it to his advantage.

David: He used it in the Philippian Forum, right? <Yeah.> In the sight of everyone. <Yeah, exactly.> So Paul modeled, I think what it meant to be a heavenly citizen first. But within the hierarchy nested under that citizenship was his Roman citizenship, and he didn't hesitate to use it when it was for his advantage. 

J.R.: Yeah, exactly. <Yeah.> Well, and, so you can kind of look at it in the context of, you know, your family. [00:47:00] That you have your family, you have your friends and that builds a natural hierarchy. And yeah. You know, we can be good friends and you're invited to my house, you're welcome guest all the time. But you know, when you come against one of my kids or when you come against my wife, we're going to have a problem. It's, cause my family takes priority over my friendships. And <Right.> for the most part, those work out fine. You know, you can be hand-in-hand with both of those ideas. But if there's a conflict, my side is going to be toward my family. I'm going to land on that. And so I think Paul's saying, look, you can be a Roman citizen. We can use that where we need to. But I am an ambassador, meaning my priority and my obligation to reflect the interests are of the kingdom of God. I'm an ambassador of heaven. And so that's what is going to take priority. But you're right, it's in a hierarchy and it doesn't mean that the other doesn't matter. 

David: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's a good analogy: just because your family comes first doesn't mean you don't have friends.

J.R.: Right, yeah, that's right. 

David: But every now [00:48:00] and then those two might come in conflict. But if you've already said in your mind, in the hierarchy, family comes first. It's not really something you have to wrestle with. 

J.R.: Yeah, that's right. <Yeah.> And it's easy, you know, to go back to the practical reality in the city of Philippi, it's easy to say, well, if you're a Roman man, we just pushed these Krenidians around - the original inhabitants of the city because we have all the power, right? <Yeah.> But that doesn't work either. You know, you can imagine that. And there probably was some of that going on. But listen, you don't want it, you got to live with these people. You know, we got to operate in this town and if you're constantly asserting your power over the non citizens, then you're just going to have an uprising. You're going to have problems. And you don't want to report back to Caesar that I can't manage this situation. And so it was a matter of operating within that culture and respecting that culture and allowing them some autonomy in the city, but also with the priority of Caesar's interest is the most important. 

David: [00:49:00] Yeah. Yeah. 

J.R.: Right. But no, we can't just push our will onto the inhabitants or else you're just going to have chaos and you're going to have anarchy, right? <Yeah.> Yeah. And so in that same way, obviously we are citizens of heaven - that takes priority. But the idea of just pushing the cultural way. Or the idea of angrily fighting against culture and refusing to engage in, you know, art and movies and music and things like that. And isolating yourself. That's not going to endear yourself to the culture that we are to be ambassadors to. <Yeah.> And so, yeah, there's a little bit of a tension between the idea of separating and engaging. 

David: Yeah. And look. Politically really around the world right now, there's been a lot of criticism against nationalism, right? <Right.> And even in some Christian circles, you'll hear it said, well, you know, look, you got, Christians have no business messing around and all this nationalistic fervor. <Right.> Which is true to an extent. But at the same time, I [00:50:00] find myself saying, I'm here in this place in time. In the country I was born in. In the state that I live in. And I don't think as Christians, we were meant to deny that, or pretend that doesn't exist. And so I just, I've heard a lot of, you know, railing against any kind of nationalism. Which I also don't think is the answer, I guess I would say. 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. But no holding the tension between the two ideas <Yeah.> I think is the key. And I think that's what Paul is going to continue to really dig into and clarify throughout the rest of the book. This idea of dual citizenship. What does that mean? <Yeah.> And having one foot in one world, one in another, but having the priority of the kingdom. Yeah. 

David: The way to summarize it, I would say is that - and, you know, if you were a Roman citizen, you understood this. The goal of a Roman citizen was not to say, "my goal is to move to Rome one day." Your goal was to say, "I'm going to make Philippi representative of Rome."

J.R.: Okay. Yeah. Now that's an interesting way to putting it. Because [00:51:00] yeah, to use that metaphor, that is a way of thinking for lots of Christians. Hey, I'm going to, this is not my home. 

David: I'm going to go to heaven one day.

J.R.: I'm going to heaven one day. Yeah. But actually instead looking at it and say, no, no, no. I was born in a particular - God intentionally put me in a time and place. So I need to represent him here. As opposed to simply looking forward and saying this doesn't matter. 

David: And as we talked about on, I think it was the Stranger Things: Apocalypse <hmm> episode. The idea is not that the earth is going to be destroyed and we're all going to go to heaven one day. 

J.R.: Right, so therefore what we do to the earth doesn't matter. 

David: Doesn't matter how I live, you know, all these things doesn't matter. It's that God's kingdom is going to be established on earth one day. Which means that it does matter how I live. <Yeah, sure. Yeah.> And my job is to represent that kingdom, in Florida or Tennessee.

J.R.: Right. Because one day it will be fully represented and [00:52:00] manifest in Florida and in Tennessee. <Yeah. Yeah.> That's an interesting way to look at it. 

David: Yeah. So I think it's one of those interesting details. Just that one little word that's not even translated in our English. I really do ...

J.R.: We completely miss it.

David: I really do think sets the tone for what Paul is trying to convey to these people in Philippi. 

J.R.: Yeah. And they had a unique understanding of that role of dual citizenship. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. All right. What a great start. 

David: Yeah. So that's just chapter one. 

J.R.: There we go. And again, you don't go through this verse by verse. And like we said, this isn't a Bible study, but you can take that idea of dual citizenship and read the entire book of Philippians, because it's not a very long book. And look at it through that lens and things pop out. Once you see that, things pop out in all through the book. 

David: Yeah. Certain words will start taking on new meaning as you read through Philippians. And we would encourage you to, you know, listen to these episodes here, read along with it. sure, study the book.

J.R.: And it becomes obvious once you see [00:53:00] it. Yeah. You. I can't unsee it. 

David: Yeah. So next time we're going to talk about Philippians 2. We're going to talk about another poem about Christ. We talked about one in Colossians, chapter one or two, I think? So there's a similar poem <Yeah.> in Philippians 2 that we're going to talk about next time. 

J.R.: All right. Let's do it. 

David: Yeah. So thanks for listening. As always any kind of likes, subscribes, ratings, reviews that would really help us. We're going to try and increase the reach of this podcast.

J.R.: Right, Hey, we've got a fan list page.

David: Fan lists. We've been talking about that. 

J.R.: Yeah, we've been trying to set that up. Go check that out. The link will be in the show notes. <Yes.> Yes. I'm looking forward to that. A little bit easier to directly communicate with us. 

David: Yeah, there will be multiple ways to communicate with us on that page that we're going to link. You'll be able to ask us questions throw your comments, and hey, also we would love to be able to answer some of your questions during future episodes as well. <Yeah.> You can stay anonymous or not, but it's [00:54:00] something we want to do too, but overall, we just want to connect with the people who are listening. 

J.R.: Yeah. And I think, I think we'll get, we'll start opening up with some questions maybe at the beginning of the next podcast. <Yeah.> Because we've gotten a few and we'll try, maybe we won't take up too much time with it. But yeah, it's worth answering some quick questions. <Yeah. Yeah.> All right. Let's do it. 

David: Yeah. We will talk to you next episode. Thanks for listening.